Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

TravelingVagrant wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:27 pm Without digging too much through the thread, I like this idea. Even if it were to have a gold cost - upwards of 100k seems reasonable to me. Maybe you buy a token in the Nexus that you can't appraise lower.

Not only do you get a good gold sink option, it gives players the ability to fix any screw ups in their build, or allow for more player customization.

I think players can be trusted to keep their established characters more or less consistent, and if they're rich enough to abuse this, well. I think the cases of abuse would be so far and few between that it could be handled easily by admins.

For instance, there's some stuff in Cyran's build that I'm not happy with, including some skill point issues and feats. I'd love to be able to fix that, but at level 26 it's too punishing, so I'll stay with the issues on my end until the server split. There's just some things in builds you don't know the problems with until you get into the epics.

Free up to level 10, 100k per level after. No one will abuse it

Tanlaus wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:41 pm

TravelingVagrant wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:27 pm Without digging too much through the thread, I like this idea. Even if it were to have a gold cost - upwards of 100k seems reasonable to me. Maybe you buy a token in the Nexus that you can't appraise lower.

Not only do you get a good gold sink option, it gives players the ability to fix any screw ups in their build, or allow for more player customization.

I think players can be trusted to keep their established characters more or less consistent, and if they're rich enough to abuse this, well. I think the cases of abuse would be so far and few between that it could be handled easily by admins.

For instance, there's some stuff in Cyran's build that I'm not happy with, including some skill point issues and feats. I'd love to be able to fix that, but at level 26 it's too punishing, so I'll stay with the issues on my end until the server split. There's just some things in builds you don't know the problems with until you get into the epics.

Free up to level 10, 100k per level after. No one will abuse it

And thus, no one RCR'd past level 10 ever again. Gods be praised!

100k per level after 10 might just be more punitive than the experience cost.

whatsittoya wrote: ↑Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:12 pm 100k per level after 10 might just be more punitive than the experience cost.

Maybe let people choose between paying ot taking the XP penalty.

How about we not punish players with asinine gold OR experience penalties for tweaking their builds? Again, it's something the vast majority of video games allow without so much ado about nothing.

FallingStar wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:26 am How about we not punish players with asinine gold OR experience penalties for tweaking their builds? Again, it's something the vast majority of video games allow without so much ado about nothing.

Yes please. Not everyone is swimming in millions of gold coins.

Free RCRs are never going to stop me making new characters. I have too many as is. But I do wonder if free RCRs won't encourage more people to retire/kill-off long term characters because lets face it ... leveling something solo that is a pure RP build from 15-30 all over again isn't fun for everyone.

A free RCR once a quarter per account would be something and I do not think it could be abused.

Having this would eliminate any sense of progression and work that makes RPGs feel good.

I feel this will just kill a fun aspect of the game in favor to cathering todays expectancy of people that want everything now and instant gratification.

Of course it will be abused, and people are going to find out new ways of exploiting this like RCRing to certain build and then changing it depending on what event they are on or who they are fighting, some builds maybe just change skills , one week focus on disguise, then next week on hide/ms then next week on spot and detection.

Having 100% rcr always on would kill a big portion of the roleplaying and what makes an rpg game good.

If you mess up your build it's your fault. I never seen a mechanic like this in pnp and I don't think it should be here because the integrity of a PC is put at risk.

I know some social servers have been used as an example but remember that this is an RPG server.

yyj wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:12 am Having this would eliminate any sense of progression and work that makes RPGs feel good.

I feel this will just kill a fun aspect of the game in favor to cathering todays expectancy of people that want everything now and instant gratification.

Of course it will be abused, and people are going to find out new ways of exploiting this like RCRing to certain build and then changing it depending on what event they are on or who they are fighting, some builds maybe just change skills , one week focus on disguise, then next week on hide/ms then next week on spot and detection.

Having 100% rcr always on would kill a big portion of the roleplaying and what makes an rpg game good.

If you mess up your build it's your fault. I never seen a mechanic like this in pnp and I don't think it should be here because the integrity of a PC is put at risk.

I know some social servers have been used as an example but remember that this is an RPG server.

I'd have to agree with the above. I have too little faith in players to not abuse a monthly RCR, or even a quarterly RCR. I can imagine players optimizing for stealth one period, then going full PvP the next, or going social skills for DM plotlines. Internal consistency is what's needed for a RP server, and RCR even as it is can be jarring and game breaking that internal consistency.

Could people not abuse it, and use it to fix their little build problems? Sure, it's possible. But give people an inch, and they'll ask for a mile; as is apparent by offering a limited RCR meant for retired characters and then having players ask for a monthly RCR for unretired characters instead. It's the literal definition of a slippery slope.

Do the work, use the test module offered here on the site for building. If you have a question about a feat, ask someone who's taken it. Heck, we have an entire QC team, don't we? PM one of them and see if they can answer it.

Easy to say when you don't have wasted feats to remove in a server that throws boosted enemies on your face.

I agree on the fact that it will be abused to some degree, but what of people like me that have genuine small fixes to deal with?

I'm here to rp, not to grind 10 levels back again to change one feat.

I am sure that a way in between can be found. Like one free RCR per character or something.

Edit: I should have avoided that mistake, yes, but there is so much stuff to learn in this server even in terms of items you can buy that can literally change your build entirely and I don't have that much experience to know every little thing. Should have I asked? Yes, perhaps, but I can't really ask people to make me a full build.

If you mess up your build it's your fault. I never seen a mechanic like this in pnp and I don't think it should be here because the integrity of a PC is put at risk.

I've never been and I've never played with a DM that would not allow me to tweak a mistake on a build.

But I guess it's my fault and I have no right to complain, using that logic.

yyj wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:12 am Having this would eliminate any sense of progression and work that makes RPGs feel good.

I feel this will just kill a fun aspect of the game in favor to cathering todays expectancy of people that want everything now and instant gratification.

Of course it will be abused, and people are going to find out new ways of exploiting this like RCRing to certain build and then changing it depending on what event they are on or who they are fighting, some builds maybe just change skills , one week focus on disguise, then next week on hide/ms then next week on spot and detection.

Having 100% rcr always on would kill a big portion of the roleplaying and what makes an rpg game good.

If you mess up your build it's your fault. I never seen a mechanic like this in pnp and I don't think it should be here because the integrity of a PC is put at risk.

I know some social servers have been used as an example but remember that this is an RPG server.

PhB II for 3.5E has systems very similar to RCR.

Dragonslayer wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:37 am
I'd have to agree with the above. I have too little faith in players to not abuse a monthly RCR, or even a quarterly RCR. I can imagine players optimizing for stealth one period, then going full PvP the next, or going social skills for DM plotlines. Internal consistency is what's needed for a RP server, and RCR even as it is can be jarring and game breaking that internal consistency.

Could people not abuse it, and use it to fix their little build problems? Sure, it's possible. But give people an inch, and they'll ask for a mile; as is apparent by offering a limited RCR meant for retired characters and then having players ask for a monthly RCR for unretired characters instead. It's the literal definition of a slippery slope.

Wow. That's a pretty cynical look at our playerbase. I am certainly glad that staff as a whole doesn't share your poor opinion of those that play here.

This server has long been touted as one that "caters to all play styles", and while I've certainly lamented the fact over the years, it is always curious how the sentiment is thrown out the window when convenient.

You want a greater challenge? You have the tools to make it so. You want to re-level your epic character when you messed up a build? You have tools to use to do that.

But arguing against something because you want others to struggle or enjoy things "your way" isn't really what this place is about. Nor has it ever been.

As this conversation has been going on, I have come to a single option that might just make everyone happy:

One single 100% RCR, per PC “lifetime.”

I could envision it that at creation, each toon is granted a non-trade-able 100% RCR Token (they already exist). If you spend it, you spend it. One time only. If you (do-me) up your one time use to repair mistakes, then you are stuck with the 50% after 20 RCR option (as it is now).

Additionally, if you goof AT ALL with this system, no DM/Admin help should be asked not excepted. This frees up staff from dealing with our dumb asses.

Alexander Holgart wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:18 am Easy to say when you don't have wasted feats to remove in a server that throws boosted enemies on your face.

I agree on the fact that it will be abused to some degree, but what of people like me that have genuine small fixes to deal with?

I'm here to rp, not to grind 10 levels back again to change one feat.

I am sure that a way in between can be found. Like one free RCR per character or something.

Edit: I should have avoided that mistake, yes, but there is so much stuff to learn in this server even in terms of items you can buy that can literally change your build entirely and I don't have that much experience to know every little thing. Should have I asked? Yes, perhaps, but I can't really ask people to make me a full build.

If you mess up your build it's your fault. I never seen a mechanic like this in pnp and I don't think it should be here because the integrity of a PC is put at risk.

I've never been and I've never played with a DM that would not allow me to tweak a mistake on a build.

But I guess it's my fault and I have no right to complain, using that logic.

Well it depends, my DM for 16 years always checked our sheets before starting playing and always helped us out if we messed up on our builds, same thing while leveling up. He always wanted us to deal with the consequences of our choices but was flexible in it that he always gave us enough resources that we were fully informed of how everything works, he then always took our player sheets with him and wouldn't allow any changes at all during game.

Surely some tables allow you to RCR characters over and over and over, and that is fine. But officially, the way to rebuild, in DnD was by sacrificing experience, I think Runa Hoihe quoted that somewhere so maybe she can point it out in one of the sourcebooks. But that kind of thing was basically deleveling and sacrificing EXP.

If you are here to RP, then why do levels even matter?