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[Carbondk]

Atlas, not many lvl 21 characters of any kind can eat up Chaos & co. in seconds.

Also, Janus eats up pretty much everything else, be it giants or whatever. Max BAB + 8 STR + divine damage bonus en masse as well as AC higher than my epic cleric. Come on, and you're asking for more cheese?

[Atlas]

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[Luna]

So you're perfectly fine with rediculously powerful spells like Teleport being available to Mages, and we even have Detect Magic, Undead and Poison, but not Detect Evil? That's a bit two faced don't you think?

Detect Evil will not get added, at least right now.
The past few times it's come up the DM's don't want to have to deal with the side issue's it might cause (which makes sense to me).

[Simian]

If detect alignment line of spells and abilities are to be added, so should be all the counter measures against them. And even then, there are some issues that remain.

[Managarn]

haha, knew youd pick on the detect evil part. There is a lot i disagree with pnp but those are mostly not part of the mechanics of combat(which i believe is what we are discussing here). Most stuff relating to the alignments is what i have a problem with.

Also if alignment detection spells or ability are to be ever added, then we should also have the non-dectection counterpart or spells/ability that allow to fool those. But they are just big can of worm as far as rp is concerned imo and is why i dont want them added on bgtscc ever.

[WeWhoEat]

Detect Evil would be the death of us all.

In every PnP game I have been in, and every PnP game that I have DMed, Detect Evil and any other methods of detecting alignment were houseruled out. Why? Because it kills a vast amount of potential events, quests, and RP before it even starts.

And wait, are we really debating why brutish dim half-orcs make worse paladins than creatures who are descended from angels and celestials? Really? Are we next going to argue that elves make too good of archers compared to dwarves?


If we say that X build is too strong, that we should buff paladins to compare, then we have to look at all weak builds and give them the same courtesy, at which point those dastardly multi-classing min-maxxers then take all of our balance efforts and use them to cheese an even stronger munckin build, at which point the cycle starts anew. This leads to inflation of power levels, which calls for stronger monsters to face the stronger characters. Meanwhile, anybody with an actual RP build falls completely behind and gets eaten at level 30 by a level 10 troll.

The proper step in not to boost everybody's power, but to limit how things can be abused for the ludicrously overpowered builds, to stop inflation in the first place. People should not be critting for 200+ damage, or ending up with 70 AC. Otherwise, it spawns more threads like these.

[Xanfyrst]

Funnily enough most people who ever consider playing the class only ever choose an Aasimar because its so much better than the rest, is that fair in anyone's world, that a class should be considered obsolete unless you choose its favoured race?

Bump the Level Adjustment to +2 or +3 on Aasimar. They're already one of the most powerful races around.

Problem solved.

[scriver]

And wait, are we really debating why brutish dim half-orcs make worse paladins than creatures who are descended from angels and celestials? Really? Are we next going to argue that elves make too good of archers compared to dwarves?

That's sidestepping what Atlas said, WeWhoEat. That wasn't his point at all. He was not arguing against the power gap between them, he was arguing that even the worst fit race should be able to at least be decent at a class. That's really not the same thing.

[Kaden Asen]

I disagree, they should -not- be close in the power gap.

Aasimar are more of less -divinly- bred to become the holy protectors of their respective churches. So by -story- RP, and -common- sense, they should be far better at it then your average joe who got signed up.

More so, when building a class it's smarter to play to the strengths of your -race- first. Class second. I've come with a few ideas for melee Paladins, and the first thing I try to avoid is EDM. It's awsome where it fits. . .crippling where it doesn't.

[Atlas]

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[Rasael]

I think I've fixed the bugs for the Holy Sword / Holy Avenger / Bless Weapon spells.

What I'm interested in besides that is this variant package for Paladins:

http://dndtools.eu/classes/paladin-variant/

<color=Gold><b>Paladin Variant</b></color>

This variant paladin gains all the normal class features of the paladin, with the following changes and additions:

Spells: The paladin does not gain the ability to cast divine spells.

He does gain the following abilities:

Level 6: Bless Weapon as per the spell at will.
Level 11: Divine Might once per day, as a spell like ability.
Level 16: Holy Sword once per day, at half a regular paladin's casterlevel.

[omnilicious]

I think I've fixed the bugs for the Holy Sword / Holy Avenger / Bless Weapon spells.

What I'm interested in besides that is this variant package for Paladins:

http://dndtools.eu/classes/paladin-variant/

<color=Gold><b>Paladin Variant</b></color>

This variant paladin gains all the normal class features of the paladin, with the following changes and additions:

Spells: The paladin does not gain the ability to cast divine spells.

He does gain the following abilities:

Level 6: Bless Weapon as per the spell at will.
Level 11: Divine Might once per day, as a spell like ability.
Level 16: Holy Sword once per day, at half a regular paladin's casterlevel.

I think you meant this link: http://dndtools.eu/classes/complete-war ... n-variant/

The one you linked is favored enemy at the cost of LoH/Turn Undead/Remove Disease

[Rasael]

The Holy Sword / Holy Avenger / Bless Weapon spells have been fixed so they no longer unequip your weapon after the duration expires. The properties added onto the item should expire properly now, without resorting to that fix.

That hopefully makes play a bit more comfortable with these spells