Warlock Lore - Must Read

[fashionisdanger]

As you stated, star pacts belong to the 4th edition and Fey pacts are, as long as I know, something pretty much uncommon if not coming from evil feys.
However. The lore says that warlocks may be born with their powers (and unless they are tieflings or feys, well, it cannot be a natural thing) and some people believe that there are similarities between the magic of warlocks, sorcerers and dragons. Are those eldritch mages to be feared and distrusted by the folks? I believe yes. Should we discourage CN and CG warlocks? I believe not.

[Elthan]

That depends on the dungeon masters, but as it stands there are no backround feats that would show for such heritage, nor are the such prestige classes. I've made a suggestion to add those heritage fetas...

But, if the Dungeon Masters don't approve, well, it's just 1000 points of experience you won't get - and there isn't really much else they can do to object based on how it is possible under the 3.5 rules and in Forgotten Realms settings.

The 3.5 rules do not disallow different outsider heritages and there is a fey heritage for those interested.

[Catam]

I've always just used the wiki

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Warlock

There's lots of lore and stuff for warlocks.

↑ 1.0 1.1 Rob Heinsoo, Andy Collins, James Wyatt (June 2008). Player's Handbook 4th edition, p. 130-131. Wizards of the Coast. ISBN 0-7869-4867-1.
↑ Rob Heinsoo, Logan Bonner, Robert J. Schwalb (September 2008). Forgotten Realms Player's Guide, p. 35. Wizards of the Coast. ISBN 978-0-7869-4929-8.
↑ 3.0 3.1 3.2 Rob Heinsoo, Andy Collins, James Wyatt (June 2008). Player's Handbook 4th edition, p. 129. Wizards of the Coast. ISBN 0-7869-4867-1.
↑ 4.0 4.1 Rob Heinsoo, Andy Collins, James Wyatt (June 2008). Player's Handbook 4th edition, p. 131. Wizards of the Coast. ISBN 0-7869-4867-1.
↑ Rob Heinsoo, Andy Collins, James Wyatt (June 2008). Player's Handbook 4th edition, p. 129-130. Wizards of the Coast. ISBN 0-7869-4867-1.
↑ 6.0 6.1 6.2 6.3 6.4 6.5 6.6 Eytan Bernstein (March 14, 2007). Warlocks, Part 1. Class Chronicles. Retrieved on June 8, 2009.
↑ 7.0 7.1 Richard Baker (November 2004). Complete Arcane, p. 5-6. Wizards of the Coast. ISBN 0-7869-3435-2.
↑ 8.0 8.1 8.2 8.3 8.4 8.5 Rob Heinsoo, Andy Collins, James Wyatt (June 2008). Player's Handbook 4th edition, p. 130. Wizards of the Coast. ISBN 0-7869-4867-1.
↑ 9.0 9.1 9.2 Richard Baker (November 2004). Complete Arcane, p. 6. Wizards of the Coast. ISBN 0-7869-3435-2.
↑ 10.0 10.1 10.2 10.3 10.4 10.5 10.6 Eytan Bernstein (March 28, 2007). Warlocks, Part 2. Class Chronicles. Retrieved on June 9, 2009.
↑ 11.0 11.1 Richard Baker (November 2004). Complete Arcane, p. 5. Wizards of the Coast. ISBN 0-7869-3435-2.
↑ Rob Heinsoo, Andy Collins, James Wyatt (June 2008). Player's Handbook 4th edition, p. 132. Wizards of the Coast. ISBN 0-7869-4867-1.
↑ Rob Heinsoo, Andy Collins, James Wyatt (June 2008). Player's Handbook 4th edition, p. 129-131. Wizards of the Coast. ISBN 0-7869-4867-1.
↑ Richard Baker (November 2004). Complete Arcane, p. 8. Wizards of the Coast. ISBN 0-7869-3435-2.
↑ 15.0 15.1 15.2 15.3 Rob Heinsoo, Logan Bonner, Robert J. Schwalb (September 2008). Forgotten Realms Player's Guide, p. 35. Wizards of the Coast. ISBN 978-0-7869-4929-8.
↑ Rob Heinsoo, Logan Bonner, Robert J. Schwalb (September 2008). Forgotten Realms Player's Guide, p. 35-40. Wizards of the Coast. ISBN 978-0-7869-4929-8.
↑ Rob Heinsoo, Logan Bonner, Robert J. Schwalb (September 2008). Forgotten Realms Player's Guide, p. 49. Wizards of the Coast. ISBN 978-0-7869-4929-8.
↑ 18.0 18.1 Rob Heinsoo, Andy Collins, James Wyatt (June 2008). Player's Handbook 4th edition, p. 132-140. Wizards of the Coast. ISBN 0-7869-4867-1.
↑ 19.0 19.1 Rob Heinsoo, Andy Collins, James Wyatt (June 2008). Player's Handbook 4th edition, p. 131-132. Wizards of the Coast. ISBN 0-7869-4867-1.
↑ Rob Heinsoo, Andy Collins, James Wyatt (June 2008). Player's Handbook 4th edition, p. 141. Wizards of the Coast. ISBN 0-7869-4867-1.
↑ Rob Heinsoo, Andy Collins, James Wyatt (June 2008). Player's Handbook 4th edition, p. 142. Wizards of the Coast. ISBN 0-7869-4867-1.
↑ 22.0 22.1 Bruce R. Cordell. Wish Upon a Star (PDF). Dragon magazine 366 p. 18.
↑ Bruce R. Cordell. Wish Upon a Star (PDF). Dragon magazine 366 p. 18-19.
↑ Bruce R. Cordell. Wish Upon a Star (PDF). Dragon magazine 366 p. 17.
↑ 25.0 25.1 Rob Heinsoo, Andy Collins, James Wyatt (June 2008). Player's Handbook 4th edition, p. 140. Wizards of the Coast. ISBN 0-7869-4867-1.
↑ Bruce R. Cordell. Wish Upon a Star (PDF). Dragon magazine 366 p. 24-25.

These are all 4th Ed! Say it ain't so, Wretch!!!

Seriously though, wikis in general are not always reliable sources as they are user edited... I have seen so many errors, typos, inconsistencies, misquotes and falsities from wikis that one should only use them as a place to find sources about a desired topic of review. Use the original sources listed at the bottom of a wiki for the most accurate information. Given that the FR Wiki about Warlocks linked above is actually all 4th Ed (except the Complete Arcane published in 2004, that is 3.5), lore and mechanics from it are irrelevant. The staff here has said that BGTSCC uses up to 3.5 for mechanics and 3.0 for lore.

I would love to see the staff add to the "Lore of the Realms" section exactly what is to be used by players on our server and end the endless debating about it. Even if it is just posting the names of which books and/or links to which sites are to be used as sources. That way, if someone asks, anyone can simply say, "Go find the Warlock Lore in the Lore of the Realms!" and post the link to it. No debate... black and white... or grayish-green and white... or whatever color out forum background is!

[fashionisdanger]

Oh that would help! It would't be that hard about warlocks. Somebody did already an awesome jobs gathering all the infos about warlocks and pact, it is just enough to make a consistency check

[Elthan]

I'm curious though as to the staff's position on pact origins..
Can a player make a pact with a neutral or good power? (or rather a different outsider power than: demon , devils , fay)

[scriver]

I don't think it's as much a question of "could" as it is "would". What reason would good outsiders have to grant these powers?

As for neutral, iirc it was brought up that it's possible to receive eldricht powers through elemental heritage, much like how tieflings can get theirs.

None of these would be particularly well supported by the game mechanics, however.

[DM Wretch]

I've been found out like a university student plagiarizing Wikipedia! WAaah!

Actually, There are a few reasons I currently use this.
1)
one reason I use that wiki is because it just gives me a summary of many things that came to pass. . . There's lots of info on dead gods and stuff I use for lore there, and sometimes it is wrong but I've found much of it to be correct, but yes. After you, Catam, cleverly snuffed me out like a professor on overdrive, a lot of these concepts about warlocｋs do not apply to our current 3.5 world. Many DM also refer to this wiki for lore that existed during 3.5 and before 3.0, so I suppose I foolishly did so with the warlock as well.

2) However, in my own defense, many of the warlocks I have seen in game are based on this wiki descriptions. "Fey locks" and "Primordial Locks" I have had many players ask me questions in tell or via the DM channel if they are okay. i have even seen some folks say they have their powers naturally with no pacts involved ... (which I don't agree should be the casE). One even asked me about the "Lollthlockes" and such... SOme　even roleplay as though it is okay for any of these ideas, and I have seen different DM deal with warlock's in Pvp in different ways. Some may even consider them to be KoS.

Basically, there's lots of ideas floating around.


Thanks for pointing this out to me, Catam. I hope others see the same if they were also using this wiki compared with the 3.5 version as seen at the start, because I fear many were. I think the safest way to play warlock on our server, however, is to follow this wonderful guide at the start of the entire forum. As for other concepts... it's still obviously being discussed here with many folks

Bah, it's 4:09 Am when I make all these posts.

[Deathgrowl]

Help me interpret this from the 3.5 source book Complete Mage p.8:

"As beings of pure chaos unconcerned with matters of morality, few slaadi care enough to make pacts with mortals. Some of the most potent of them, however, such as the mightiest of the death slaadi, occasionally empower warlocks for their own unfathomable reasons."

[Hoihe]

In the case of a fiend blooded warlock, how dangerous is analysing the blood? Must it be handled with care like a real fiend's blood, or can it be cared for like a common human's blood?

(tiefer blood)

[scriver]

i have even seen some folks say they have their powers naturally with no pacts involved ... (which I don't agree should be the casE)

If it were me who decided, I'd say any "pactless" warlocks are just oblivious to what the pact actually is

"Lollthlockes"

Isn't thus actually a thing though? I remember it being mentioned in one of our many warlock discussions that Lolth keeps a couple of devils or demons (whichever it was) in her service for just that purpose.

Help me interpret this from the 3.5 source book Complete Mage p.8:

"As beings of pure chaos unconcerned with matters of morality, few slaadi care enough to make pacts with mortals. Some of the most potent of them, however, such as the mightiest of the death slaadi, occasionally empower warlocks for their own unfathomable reasons."

Doesn't it just mean what it days? That few care to do it, but a handful does? And that nobody knows why?

[DM Wretch]

Isn't thus actually a thing though? I remember it being mentioned in one of our many warlock discussions that Lolth keeps a couple of devils or demons (whichever it was) in her service for just that purpose.

Yeah, but Lollthloke's just sound weird as a term

i have even seen some folks say they have their powers naturally with no pacts involved ... (which I don't agree should be the casE)

Probably the best way to approach this. :Ｄ　

[WeWhoEat]

As much as I once supported the Pact-only aspect of Warlock magic, it ~does~ seem that there is sufficient material to support the idea of heritage-enabled warlocks. That being said, they would be tieflings or genasi, or perhaps creatures with the Heritage feats.

All that aside, though, would you rather be some cheery happy lovey-dovey peacenik warlock, or the kind of being that can bend devils to their will, calling down the fires of the Hells to consume your foes and send their souls screaming into darkness? Claiming to be a heritage warlock is boring, and the easy way out. You can still be a good or neutral direct-Pacting warlock, after all, and the RP would be far more interesting than just having the "Its in my blood, not my fault lulz" excuse.

I will take two servings of badass devil-lock, please, served with a side of fun "flirting with damnation" RP.

I used to look at it sort of like wizards vs sorcerers, when it comes to direct Pacters vs non-direct Pacters. Not necessarily in terms of mechanics, but rather in terms of mentality and expertise. A sorcerer will never truly understand the power he wields like a wizard does. He might use it more powerfully, or less, but the understanding and finesse of magic go to the wizard, hand's-down. A sorcerer uses the magic, but a wizard understands the magic. Likewise, somebody who inherited their Pact, or has it from their extraplanar blood, will never understand warlock mojo quite like somebody who makes a study of it, who seizes the power for themselves, who actually deals with those extraplanar entities. It might not matter mechanically, but next time you are in an event and need to dominate a big angry MOFO of a devil, do not be surprised when the direct-Pact warlock comes out on top.

[Elthan]

I'd also like to mention warlock party potential:

If you are a LG/NG/CG worshipper of a deity that has an element of nature , morality and/or virtue you should consider warlocks abhorrent.

I would venture to say clerics also all consider them such for they are in the business of getting people's souls into their deity's domain and the warlock's soul has a predetermined route.

A surface warlock is to be what a UD paladin would be. an outcast that should remain cautious about the use of his powers and the declaration of being such until he has allied himself with the local baddies and is formidable himself

Becoming a trust worthy warlock among the good should be a long process akin to that of good drow on the surface.

(( have played both a CN starlock and a LE devillock in other servers))

[Deathgrowl]

Help me interpret this from the 3.5 source book Complete Mage p.8:

"As beings of pure chaos unconcerned with matters of morality, few slaadi care enough to make pacts with mortals. Some of the most potent of them, however, such as the mightiest of the death slaadi, occasionally empower warlocks for their own unfathomable reasons."

Doesn't it just mean what it days? That few care to do it, but a handful does? And that nobody knows why?

So it means I can play one?

[scriver]

If I was in any kind of charge, yes. Just watch out now that spring is coming