Drow Exile?

[DM_Absolution]

What I'm getting at basically-
1. We need DM's. As a long time drow player, I don't feel that DM's have favortism, I feel that we are DISFAVORED. As if we are a plague or something.
2. We need more areas, and more exploration.
3. Cross Realm RP and conflict is VERY positive for players, if done maturely. If not, well you have send to home location.

I don't think so, Israe.

1) The UD needs DM attention, like everything and everywhere else. But nobody is DISFAVORED: DMs just generally don't feel confident to DM the UD, and leave it alone for fear of making decisive mistakes and upset players. It is up to the players themselves to do some extra work to help the DMs, or BECOME DMs.

2) Areas and exploration are fine, but when I was playing in the UD, I had fun even in a single room for hours. What you need, is players committed to the UD, instead of this Surface Drow crap (sorry, no disrespect meant ). To generate intrigue you need the people, you need the factions, you need plans and counter-moves...not only the "silence, I kill you!" PvP stuff...that's a small, latent part of it. Without the committed people, the areas won't save you from boredom.

3) I have rarely ever seen it "done maturely". It utopistic at best, but yeah, one can dream...personally speaking, never been overly optimistic, though...

TL;DR -> Committed people (5-6 players, 2-3 factions...the rest will come), that PLAY IN THE UD, with the objective of PLAYING IN THE UD instead of going anywhere else...and intrigue. Shadows, cobwebs, smoke and mirrors...PvP crap kept to a minimum, but with amazing, everlasting consequences agreed among the players to make it COUNT, instead of dying like flies only to come back and die again...and come back.

That's what you need. When the UD had that, we used to have LOADS of fun, and the areas were less than now, and the DMs just as rare.

Aelcar, you know as well as i that the UD needs more areas. This is not to be contested, it is simply the truth, but if Steve is correct then there are plans in motion here. To be against the surface drow idea is all well and fine, that is up for debate. New areas won't save you from boredom, but it will stave it off for quite a while, and keep helping staving it off for a long time.

I agree with you on the first point, many DM's avoid the UD for that reason, and it is understandable to some degree. The solution i can think of is to of course get DM's that are comfortable down there, but also let the "surface" DM's at least attempt minor events in the UD to get used to it. Perhaps they should make a rule for themselves, that for every 2 events they do on the surface (no matter how small), they should do 1 below.

Anyhow, i need to get back to my semester paper.

[DreWalker]

What would you even be exiled from? the city of Sshamath? I dont think the conclave cares very much if a drow wants to spend time on the surface. Its not a Llothite city afterall. which brings up the question, can we get a Llothite city?! and one without a near Mythal?

[Storm Munin]

The issue with a pure lolthite agenda such as Ched Nazad or the great Menzo are however the already mentioned feared splitting of the UD roleplay.

Why would anyone wanting traditional drow roleplay ever go to Sshamath and why would any sensible Sshamathan wizard or anyone of the lesser races ever enter such a city?
Yes, some would go anyway but..

Eryndlyn beneath the High Moor would be a far better choice if we ever got to implementing a second UD city.
Population: 60.000 souls (Lolthite, Vhaerunite, Ghaundanauran and a sprinkling of Eilistraee as I recall.)

Tlindhen in the far south would be an interesting Lolthite choice with surface options but that would mean abandoning the Sword Coast entirely for some maps.

[Aelcar]

Aelcar, you know as well as i that the UD needs more areas. This is not to be contested, it is simply the truth, but if Steve is correct then there are plans in motion here. To be against the surface drow idea is all well and fine, that is up for debate. New areas won't save you from boredom, but it will stave it off for quite a while, and keep helping staving it off for a long time.

Yes, there are plans in motion for the UD. Look at the new Sshamath, or the Illithid Hive: it's clear that there's love for the place.

I'm not against the surface drow idea for kicks: Surface Drow is ok in a vacuum...the problem is, it just hurts the UD. Badly. And THAT "is not to be contested", if you really want to use that .

I'm not saying new areas aren't great. I am saying they are prio2. Committed players are prio1.

I agree with you on the first point, many DM's avoid the UD for that reason, and it is understandable to some degree. The solution i can think of is to of course get DM's that are comfortable down there, but also let the "surface" DM's at least attempt minor events in the UD to get used to it. Perhaps they should make a rule for themselves, that for every 2 events they do on the surface (no matter how small), they should do 1 below.

Sure. Or perhaps some UD players should DM once in a while, instead of rolling yet another meaningless alt. Perhaps they should make a rule for themselves, that for every 2 characters nobody cares about (mechanical fun, build experiments...), they should apply for DMing and run a few events once in a while.

Anyhow, i need to get back to my semester paper.

Good luck with those man! The sooner they're behind you, the sooner you can go back to play !

[Israe]

I'm not against the surface drow idea for kicks: Surface Drow is ok in a vacuum...the problem is, it just hurts the UD. Badly. And THAT "is not to be contested", if you really want to use that .

I'm not saying new areas aren't great. I am saying they are prio2. Committed players are prio1.

I agree with you on the first point, many DM's avoid the UD for that reason, and it is understandable to some degree. The solution i can think of is to of course get DM's that are comfortable down there, but also let the "surface" DM's at least attempt minor events in the UD to get used to it. Perhaps they should make a rule for themselves, that for every 2 events they do on the surface (no matter how small), they should do 1 below.

Sure. Or perhaps some UD players should DM once in a while, instead of rolling yet another meaningless alt. Perhaps they should make a rule for themselves, that for every 2 characters nobody cares about (mechanical fun, build experiments...), they should apply for DMing and run a few events once in a while.

Anyhow, i need to get back to my semester paper.

Good luck with those man! The sooner they're behind you, the sooner you can go back to play !

Cut some of it out. The fact is we need new areas. I'm literally like narcoleptic at this point as a committed UD player. Secondly, some of us did volunteer for DM'ing, I know I did. But many of us didn't get picked up. The only thing keeping the high level players past 20 into it is the RP of it, but when it comes to exploring those of us who are into it will eventually burn out. We've been waiting for SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO long for new areas, and they haven't come yet. We've been promised new areas by builders, and still nothing. I think the new areas will really help with players wanting to go to the surface, because they want to take their characters to new places. After the events with Israe I made another UD alt to be committed to UD RP, but the continual places really wearing at me. You've not been in the UD for some time, and there is a decent player base there now. At about level 20, they ALWAYS die down do to lack of things to do. RP, RP, RP. No plots are in motion (Except I think Theo is starting one, thank you Theo.). It's just... dull a lot of the time. And the plans we do have often involve surface guilds which is why Israe has a job. I know I'm doing my best to help there, made a few other UD alts to help show new UD players around and assist them, but if we don't get the new areas and DM down there, it will once again be that UD is just a place to play our alts when we're bored. Or for me to grind a Pit Fiend over and over again because no one else is on when I am in the UD.

[Storm Munin]

Welcome to the dark side eh?

I have considered it now and again.
Need to come up with a cute name, and more available time on a regular basis.
Not many things are as irksome as an absente midcampaign DM.

Maybe beginning of next year.


Name though.. Bunnywrangler just doesnt have that ring to it.

[DM_Absolution]

Not many things are as irksome as an absente midcampaign DM.

Speaking from experience Storm?

[Steve]

C'mon guys & gals...empirically speaking, the #1 reason the UD is so underpopulated is because most Players can't stand the darkness, the confinement, the lack of sunshine. Remember: it's supposed to be as Alien a world as one can possibly get in the fantasy of the Forgotten Realms! Like, for Players and shit, who, are—most of us anyway—Human beings living on a sun-baked planet.

Like most things, when a DM pays attention to it, the Players flock to it. How it should be, is, when Players pay attention to "it," DMs flock to it. But considering my above statement, even DMs dislike the Underdark. Why? Well, don't you know...they are Players too!

Let me however return this conversation back to the OP: Drow can get onto the Surface, and live their live if Exile, should they wish. That requires contacting the DM Team about your storyline, and having them approve it. Period. Do it. Done. Obviously, you better make it good and viable, else you'll get the big fat NO.

Though my advice is probably worth 2 spits in a bucket, I'll end with this: Play the UD if you love it. And, make it as fun for others as possible. If that isn't enough for you, then no matter what a DM or a Dev can do, it will never be enough. If your Game is fun for others, then they'll come back time after time. If you only make it fun for yourself and your little clique, then...

And this holds true for the entire Server.

[Selande]

The UD is a lot of fun if you have cool people to hang out with.

DM_Absolution was a fantastic DM as well.
My personal favorite but don't tell him or the current DMs that.

He made the UD very lively with tons of awesome events and lore.

Just don't let him buy you a drink.

[chad878262]

Speaking only from my personal experience...

DM BunnyBloodlust ran an event several months ago for brand new UD characters. There was around a dozen players that joined and if I recall four of us made it to the end. In an effort to bring rp to the UD I took the back story Bloodlust had created and attempted to bring notes of a potential threat to the conclave. Spent a few weeks on the character with no knowledge of the underdark and got my Drow to level three or four, then ran into a group of epic players, told my tale and got beheaded. IC I guess this faction was against the conclave, so no harm and wasn't upset...also wasn't going to start a new pc to deal with the annoyance of having to grind again at low levels.

All the intrigue of Drow allows that this group of epics could have come up with a plot to keep my character away from the conclave and worked with bloodlust to further the plot, but since my pc was beheaded it died there. Part of the issue IMHO is simply that for low levels the other players are more dangerous than the adventure areas. When the thought is to kill a low level that isn't in a faction rather than to use as a resource and create rp that is not exactly welcoming. This is why I've never gone back after my 6 week ain't trying it out. I know others that have pc's in the ud, but I just can't bring myself to stay down there (maybe someday, who knows).

[Aelcar]

Part of the issue IMHO is simply that for low levels the other players are more dangerous than the adventure areas.

I am glad you had this feeling, because you should: Drow are the apex predators of the Underdark, where everything is literally made to kill you in every possible way.

It's not an issue...it's a feature!

When the thought is to kill a low level that isn't in a faction rather than to use as a resource and create rp that is not exactly welcoming.

It is really unfortunate that this discouraged you. I don't know how it went, so it's hard to tell what could have improved, but in general...Powerful Drow are, essentially, walking nightmares. First and foremost for all the other Drow.

In Drow society, groveling and boot-licking is normality...hardly even noticed. Simply because any and all alternatives are faithfully summed up by the words "agonizing death". This mainly happens because in the world they live in, it does not matter much how strong you actually are (contrarily to popular belief): what's important, is how long your shadow is. How many people can you control? How many fear you? How many plot against you behind the scenes, afraid to step forward? That's what Drow not only value, but REVERE.

If your Drow grovels in front of them, the more powerful ones will not kill him, simply because he thereby becomes a source of power. A bit like a soul for a god. If, however, you react defiantly and proudly like a human hero would, they WILL destroy you, and in a gorean fashion for all the others to see.

Obviously, Drow groveling are FAR from being harmless: they just try to buy time for their plot to kill the powerful ones, which they most likely already set in motion, since the vast majority of Drow (with some notable exceptions...among PCs as well...sadly...) are EXTREMELY intelligent. Revenge is a dish best served cold...and in the UD, it's usually even colder, and all the sweeter...

You should definitely go back and give them a taste of the Underdark ...set the plan in motion, sip your mushroom wine and listen to the cacophony of their screams as they realize that it was you, all along...and now it's too late...

Ah, good old days...

[chad878262]

While in theory this is nice, I don't know too many people that want to create pc's and spend time on their backstory and rp to have them killed of after a short period. My pc actually did grovel... A lot. Having been an escaped slave of the Illithid there was certainly no ego there.

In any case the issue is it takes a long time to level down there and if the thought of other players is you are good for rp fodder than I imagine few people would decide to continue to play.

My point wasn't made for sympathy as I'm really not upset about it. It was made because UD players seem to be requesting more areas, more dm support, etc. But really that is dependant on having a larger percentage of players down there on a consistent basis. Really I enjoy the idea of the ud rp, but in practice whereas on the surface being one low level is really only important in where you adventure, in the Underdark it means you get to play until you accidentally happen across the wrong player who, grovel as you might decides his pc would kill you IC'ly because, well, he is chaotic evil and maybe just having a bad day.

If you want more people in the UD the first step isn't necessarily more areas or more dm support. It's making things fun for the players who spend all their time on the surface so more of them want to create ud characters. The more players are down there consistently the more resources get allocated (probably).

[Aelcar]

My point wasn't made for sympathy as I'm really not upset about it. It was made because UD players seem to be requesting more areas, more dm support, etc. But really that is dependant on having a larger percentage of players down there on a consistent basis.

Curiously, it was even my point.

Really I enjoy the idea of the ud rp, but in practice whereas on the surface being one low level is really only important in where you adventure, in the Underdark it means you get to play until you accidentally happen across the wrong player who, grovel as you might decides his pc would kill you IC'ly because, well, he is chaotic evil and maybe just having a bad day.

That isn't conform to server rules. You're describing griefing, which is by no means allowed in the UD.

If you want more people in the UD the first step isn't necessarily more areas or more dm support. It's making things fun for the players who spend all their time on the surface so more of them want to create ud characters.

That isn't in contradiction with what I said, but it DOES go against griefing...which is normal, since the UD is part of the server, and that's one of the most important server rules: "this is a cooperative game, be nice".

[Lag]

Might not mean much but back in the day I played a whole lot of time in the underdark on nwn1 and other nwn2 servers. I consider myself pretty well versed in drow culture, having been reading about them since specialty priests were a thing in second ed. I've actually decided to make the jump down myself.

So, if what you are looking for is someone very knowledgeable about how drow and even non drow interact, yet will not behead you for missing a properly timed usstan - I may be able to help. I'll be playing a selvetarmite with the hopes I can make the transition easier for those who want to play male drow and learn how to deal with the yath.

The caveat is I'm not too knowledgeable about what's available down here as the last time I played UD was 2011 here for a small stint. However that will come with time, which as a stay at home dad, I happen to have some. I'm going to grok some of the older threads about what's available down there and see if I can be of service to others who want to take advantage of the opportunities to be had by a rich underdark setting.

[thids]

In Sshamath, as a male, you deal with the yath by spitting in their face and laughing.

(just make sure you never ever leave the city )