could we get more

[crimsonrain15]

Its not easy to revamp a broken system, but I think we're heading in the right direction. Better shops, Enchanting services (even the DM held ones from time to time), an up and coming crafting system. All were mentioned ways to help with the economy and all are being worked on. I'm sure other methods are being worked on too, but I enjoy the new loot system (in theory as I haven't actually played yet), since it means when I go somewhere, I'm sure to get something instead of hoping someone else hasn't already looted all the chests at my level. Some of the further less visited areas probably could use some more chests or spawns to breath some fresh air into them and lure adventurers that way as well, but I don't think adding chests in ALL the dungeons is the way to go as I think the OP mentioned ( I'm actually having a hard time remembering what this actually started over, but I think that was it). Some drop rates could increase I suppose to give it a different balance, but the last time I did play, 1 out of 3 creatures were dropping something and this was the norm for me. I thought it was simply the norm for the server. Sure, it was usually something bulky that I just burned, but I already thought the drop rates were pretty high.

Edit: And if I could craft mundane weapons as a smith, or even masterwork weapons, I would for RP sake. Why must all crafting be aimed towards +5 Axe of 1d6 Fire Damage? Some people enjoy the little things, like sitting on a rock with friends fishing (another type of grinding, yes?)

[Lockonnow]

crimsonrain15 you can injoying what you wish but we other have other wishings

[crimsonrain15]

crimsonrain15 you can injoying what you wish but we other have other wishings

I usually do.

On the one side, we have people that want to grind away and find the best item possible. It takes alot of time and dedication. I've tried that and I don't like it, so I don't do it. What they do with the item afterwards is their business.

On the other side, we have the hardcore RPer or casual dungeon delver that has no hopes of getting the same item outside of a DM held event at the moment. If a way was made for them to achieve the same item was available (or one of equal quality of course), then why should we penalize those that spend their time grinding? It just so happens that the only way to get that item IS grinding. I'm sure this debate wouldn't be happening if the casual person could spend x amount of hours gathering materials to create an item that the looter spent x amount of hours trying to find.

[Lockonnow]

crimsonrain15 a guild house cost gold to on the server so we all have needs

[crimsonrain15]

I understand that, but if the only way to get gold is to grind for it, now we're just catering to one playstyle. I suppose you could build a mercantile empire using other people's gold and items and invest wisely, but not everyone has the know how to do that. Another option is to not care what you have, but not everyone wants to do that either. Not everyone enjoys grinding for gold and get burned out pretty quickly, even those that can solo areas. Others don't have the time to invest in it as others do either. I think there should be more options for making gold then monster hunting and loot grinding (though they are fun if that's what you enjoy).

[Lockonnow]

well we could alse just make the hard to get in to the dungeon where you need 2 or 3 players

[Lockonnow]

crimsonrain15 you know tha ttime is not not allways on my side so some time i need t o sole gold and so is it with many others

[crimsonrain15]

So a super dungeon that is near impossible for the solo player, a challenge for the group, that has slightly better than average drop rate of good stuff?

[Lockonnow]

we do have that on the server but we sould have more where we need party to get in side

[crimsonrain15]

I completely forgot where I was going with what I was saying, but I'm never opposed to more content. I know the white dragon was a toughie, but I'm not aware of a ton of people that go see it, so maybe if slightly better/more loot was awarded for the trip, it would get more traffic? More areas like that would be pretty cool too, even at low levels. The only place I can think of that is generally tough at lower levels is the batiri, but even with a decent build it isn't that much of a challenge.

[roke42]

To throw my two cents into the debate loot grinding vs item rewards: Those actively looking for loot/gold are more likely to find it.

And if your grinding a lot of chests, you are more likely to find anything. If you RP your way to it, you are more likely to get something useful for you.

[Steve]

EDIT: Isn't it the role of QC to always look to re-designing how the environment "works" on BGTSCC, "rebuilding" the Server as necessary?

No, QC's purpose is testing and constantly finding and reporting on issues, as well as offering balance suggestions and advice to the ones that make the decisions.

You say tomato, I say tomato! Through testing and reporting on issues, through offering balance suggestion and advice, the QC Team helps to redesign the environment. If you don't like the word "rebuild," as it implies "drastic alterations," fine.

The PW is too far gone to make drastic alterations. I too could think of many ways on how to create a better foundation for a PW to stand on, but there won't ever be a server wipe or a really drastic change. In the end, arguments for such becomes unconstructive no matter how well intending. We need to work with what we have.

Above, you imply there are others beyond the QC Team that "make the decisions." But in the above paragraph, you speak as if you are certain there are no "drastic alterations" ever going to be made.

What I do not understand is why anyone would want to have a closed mind about possibilities, and voice them—or not—and to decide in general that considering "big picture" changes is not constructive. If "work with what we have" would ACTUALLY be the mantra, then why was the Loot System changed? Why do we have new Feats, new PrCs? It's D&D, so there should be a Loot System. Should it be this one? Or another one? Why is yours okay but mine not? All I can say further is that if some ideas are not considered because they fall into "too drastic" then improving this Server just got very lame.

It's like you're saying don't dream of a more perfect future, from which you can make small steps toward achieving it, thus, along that path, great "work" is done. Nah...just settle for less, for "what we have."

[Karond]

Above, you imply there are others beyond the QC Team that "make the decisions." But in the above paragraph, you speak as if you are certain there are no "drastic alterations" ever going to be made

Well, my impression having been in QC for a long time is that while QC has lost some great players throughout the years, in its current formation it seems to have more of a say in things. This is probably due to the current HDMs being a bit wiser and listening more to QC, and actively asking for their opinion, than former ones did. QC represents the most knowledgable minds on game balance, so this is a good thing. The final decisions are still elsewhere, QC doesn't decide anything. However, as said, QC consensus is never opposed these days. The most drastic it gets is minor alterations to the QC consensus, so far at least. Well, unless you count instances where QC aren't even asked, then it can get drastic indeed! (and worrying!)

Well Steve, the thing about those topics is that they IMO build upon what we already have. I think that defining drastic here is probably actions that will divide the community.

Like, take a server wipe. That will certainly divide people. If I would guess, I think that players that come back to the server currently and find that their characters aren't in the vault are more likely to stop playing than ask the HDMs/Luna to restore their old account. If everyone saw the server had wiped, I think we would lose a lot of players. Part of the attachment is the community, true, but also the amount of effort put into aquiring things like xp, gold or items. Plus, I think a not so small part of those in support of a server wipe are "novelty players". They think it sounds awesome, and are curious about the possibilties. However, they're very likely to only play for a month more at best after that once the satisfaction/curiosity has vanished.

Pretty much the same idea with permadeath, losing equipment permanently and so on. It doesn't work so well with what we've. It's not building upon, like adding epic shops or up percentages, it's changing the foundation (essentially hurting alot of people). Not just economically, but it raises the bar of roleplay as well to a hardcore level.

[Steve]

Points taken, Karond.

I believe it is the community of Players, above all else. Put those same regular Players in a fresh boot of BGTSCC, all new PCs and only current Server Items, and the Server would still thrive.

And actually, it may thrive more than before (now). Of course, tis but theory unless a fresh copy was hosted, just to see who came to play.

Though, unfortunately, it would divide the current community in half or more, and that alone scares away the possibility, doesn't it? And really, in my opinion it isn't what Level the PC is, but the Campaigns, Events and Storylines any Level of PC can be "important" in. If there was more focus on that, so many desires and "needs" would be fulfilled.

Back to the OP: more chests aren't going to give the casual adventuring PCs/Players more Loot. It will however benefit the Treasure Hunters, and with more coin gained from it, and more elite trading, the imbalance will continue to grow.

The Server functions in an Unlimited Source economy, thus, what is truly most precious in terms of Gain is RL time and/or OOC Trading. The former is unfortunate for the casual Player, but more fair than the latter—investment equals payoff. And boy o boy, is the current paradigm good for paying out!

[Lockonnow]

crimsonrain15 it was not the White dragon i have in mind it just show that you dont know the whole server