Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Invoker wrote:That's what I meant with my previous post: I don't think "they attempted to change something". I think that is in fact a side effect of other scripts.

Nobody in his right mind would ever advocate for this change, don't worry about it. It's going to be fixed as soon as the problem is found.

They attempted to change it. Entire RTA roll system looks different now: you can't see any dices, getting (XvsX) result only.
Do you really think, it happened accidentally? Do not attempt to fix what is currently fine, or you break it.

Shadowcryer wrote:They attempted to change it. Entire RTA roll system looks different now: you can't see any dices, getting (XvsX) result only.
Do you really think, it happened accidentally? Do not attempt to fix what is currently fine, or you break it.

Well, you can ask the team for the confirmation, but I do think it's an accident, yes. Reasons being:

-) TA/RTA worked just fine.
-) TA/RTA worked just like PnP.
-) Such a change is an extremely bad choice balance-wise.

Since we have a very competent Dev and QC team, I can't believe such a thing would ever be intentional.

Bigby 9 is now a hand that others can attack while it's holding them lol lol really what is everyone now a gold metal greko Roman wrestler to attack while defending a grapple really lol? The hand has the wizards hp so most hands have very low hp and any real threat can just kill and dispatch one of the most powerful wizard spells in the game without even breaking a sweat . The new version of this spell is so unrealistic and funny it has to be bugged right there's no way this is supposed to be so weak now ?

A couple PMs I received over the suggestion of a staggered release spurred me to post this. I understand that quite a few people, myself included, are unhappy with much of the stuff that is being introduced in this update. The problem is that devs are so few and far between these days that people tend to pamper them and not speak up when they should.

It's quite evident that the lead dev behind this project is quite disconnected from the player-side of things and is losing track of what nwn2 should and shouldn't be. What this server should and shouldn't be. This update might've looked all good and zany when it was still being discussed and polled in the suggestions board but its implementation has revealed a slew of shortcomings. The server has a large established population who is well entrenched in their ways - this update is asking them to essentially reinvent the wheel. The disguise system and the division of lore into its subcategories is putting peoples' RP on tracks when a lot of them had been used to a more liberal style of play; when skills didn't affect character interactions and DMs were shrewd enough to make do with the previous skill set.

Moving on to the mechanical aspect - I'm all for making gameplay and combat more dynamic but adding MORE feats for already feat-starved classes to take is not the way to go about it. A lot, if not all of these feats could've been made baseline for certain classes. Arterial strike&rogue, or One Hander&duelist come to mind...

Look, I understand that this update was entire years in the making but like Jimmy in Better Call Saul says while explaining the sunken cost fallacy... Sometimes it's just better to let go. At least if we get the update piecemeal... Then people can actually voice their opinion without fear of aggravating the devs.

Invoker wrote:Well, you can ask the team for the confirmation, but I do think it's an accident, yes. Reasons being:

-) TA/RTA worked just fine.
-) TA/RTA worked just like PnP.
-) Such a change is an extremely bad choice balance-wise.

Since we have a very competent Dev and QC team, I can't believe such a thing would ever be intentional.

I mean, that they attempted to change it, and failed to do it properly by an accident. But initiation of such change was intended, yet I do not know, what they've tried to achieve.

Another 9th lvl spell is junk now please say this is a big and bigby 9 is gonna get reworked I mean attacking a hand that's holding you really is this a baby hand holding you ?

//offtopic, removed by Leoric

The Whistler wrote: It's quite evident that the lead dev behind this project is quite disconnected from the player-side of things and is losing track of what nwn2 should and shouldn't be.

The Whistler wrote:Perhaps a staggered release should be considered.

Invoker wrote: Since we have a very competent Dev and QC team, I can't believe such a thing would ever be intentional.

The update is so big because it was a desire from the developer(s). This means that a lot of this content has no balance consensus from QC (many things have flown right past us) and much of it hasn't been tested, and what has been tested maybe half of it has been fixed or adjusted and the rest is awaiting fixes.

The thing is that yes it would be desirable to actually have a staggered release, with proper testing, balancing and so forth on everything we implement. We could maybe make such updates rather fast. However, it's time consuming to Duster47 and for Rasael as well to divide the update into smaller parts.

If I would guess, this is being pushed so that the community can help iron out some things as QC only have so much time to spare, and some things that work on server 2 sometimes turn out buggy on server 1. Like, take this quote from this very topic:

tankteddy wrote:Issues I have found so far,

Wall of Thorns/stone/ECT are not creating Walls.

The Spell Gaseous forum does not Change you(I am assuming this is the same as Cavestalker ability from training mod.

I've personally tested these many times on server 2, and they worked fine there. If that's not the case now, something unforeseen has happened.

So, remain calm. Ideally, some of these sudden changes should be undone as they lack consensus, or at the very least changed in effect to be balanced, useful and in theme with the server. I'm sure the developers wouldn't push this many buggy features upon us if they weren't going to be ironed out quickly

pimpjwp wrote:Bigby 9 is now a hand that others can attack while it's holding them lol lol really what is everyone now a gold metal greko Roman wrestler to attack while defending a grapple really lol? The hand has the wizards hp so most hands have very low hp and any real threat can just kill and dispatch one of the most powerful wizard spells in the game without even breaking a sweat . The new version of this spell is so unrealistic and funny it has to be bugged right there's no way this is supposed to be so weak now ?

It was changed to function closer to the way it does in PnP.

The original NWN Bigby spells were very overpowered. A targetable, killable hand is what Bigby spells are supposed to have.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/interposingHand.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/crushingHand.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/graspingHand.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/forcefulHand.htm

Staggered updates are certainly the planned way forward.

With an update this large there will be a high degree of tinkering and ironing out of systems, for which player feedback will be vital; both on bugs, and generally.

Nothing stops the Devs tinkering in response to feedback at the same time as fixing the outright bugs so its valid to put forth opinions.

But please be patient in this initial phase as, as Karond points out, we have bona fide bugs to handle first

So, I have a suggestion. When we have some fully compiled patch notes we can split it up into parts, then have QC open a post per week lets say, discussing ans asking for feedback on the updates on that part of the list. Collect the feedback, and update the original post with the status of that feature. Keeps it organized, and splits it into manageable chunks.

That is not a bad idea, I'll suggest it to Devs and QC

Boddynock wrote:So, I have a suggestion. When we have some fully compiled patch notes we can split it up into parts, then have QC open a post per week lets say, discussing ans asking for feedback on the updates on that part of the list. Collect the feedback, and update the original post with the status of that feature. Keeps it organized, and splits it into manageable chunks.

Very good suggestion, especially that part:

When we have some fully compiled patch notes

DM Ioulaum wrote:This sounds like the same issue we had the first time, when duster tried to compioe the scripts. They will have to copied over from server 2 again?

This was my thought as well when I saw some of the bugs in this one.

As Karond explained, this update was an one off. After many months of no updates, a big pile of them - all the work thedevs did - were compiled into one update. It would be very time consuming to split into smaller parts, although that would the practical thing to do.

Karond explained it perfectly. Some content was tested, some changes were made, some passed through the cracks etc. All those issues will be fixed - the qc is aware of the problems and the players let us know of other ones. Duster and Rasael were working daily to fix the big issues with the update that got rolled back. The results are visible since this is a more stable and with less bugs. Asking them to do more, is too much for people who volunteer their time.

Everyone ( the DM team, the Devs, the QC ) are working trying to fix all the prblems that we come upon with. The changes will happen shortly. Just keep calm and positive.

It is better to have updates, than no updates at all