Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Grimdark Hitman wrote:I just think the RCR tool could use an extension on its removal date; the staff had no idea there'd be so many bugs stippled into the PW.

http://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=50681

How do you extend a date that hasn't been set yet?

I am quite confident that the DM's will allow adequate time after the major and most minor bugs have been fixed for folks to RCR their "final" versions of their PC's before they make any changes to RCR.

chad878262 wrote:...for players that need to make changes due to RP taking them down a different path.

I also think there should be at least some respect for other players in regards to RCR'ing to play the same character with completely different classes (as in Joe Adventurer RCR'ing from 24 FS/3R/3BG to 10W/10AM/10BM, but still being Joe Adventurer with the same personality, attitude, etc).[/quote]
But see, one set of limits are still limits, and limits limit FUN, so really, we should either have limits and screw fun, or no limits and...screw fun.

See how fun this is?

chad878262 wrote:it is important to understand everything discussed is simply opinion, not fact.

Duh.

The RCR Tool, in its current state and use, allows for some pretty wacky changed to a Character. Like, we have this rule that says Play Your Character Sheet, but then, Players are allowed to radically change the Character Sheet on a whim. How the F does that square?!!?

Have a 100% RCR at this moment is great, and I see many Players RCRing older toons not in order to update to the current changes that effect THAT toon and build, but to altogether other, new toons and builds. It is a total free for all.

The 50% up to level 20 was actually a rather great middle ground—one must pay a little to gain a lot. That so many are arguing against that and want everything for nothing is rather...well, I'll not say it so that I don't go insulting anyone.

Btw any timeframe on how long 100% RCR will last unless they make it permanent?

Steve wrote: You consistently ...

Steve, I read your post, and it is quite obvious to me that you simply do not understand what I meant or what I was talking about. I'm not in the mood for more explaining, so let's leave it at that.

The bottom line is that I think that this kind of tool (100% rcr once per month and optionally free 100% rcrs for all chars that never left nexus) is needed and would greatly improve the experience for people on the server. Less grinding and questing and more acting.

That's the way I see it.

chad878262 wrote:

Grimdark Hitman wrote:I just think the RCR tool could use an extension on its removal date; the staff had no idea there'd be so many bugs stippled into the PW.

http://www.bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=50681

How do you extend a date that hasn't been set yet?

I am quite confident that the DM's will allow adequate time after the major and most minor bugs have been fixed for folks to RCR their "final" versions of their PC's before they make any changes to RCR.

Na na na, I am just presuming the 100 percent isn't going to be up for a month. Seems like a reasonable assumption, yes?

V'rass wrote:Btw any timeframe on how long 100% RCR will last unless they make it permanent?

We'll give a few days notice before taking it down.

100% RCR is a good thing, please keep it that way.

Maybe we could make 100% RCRs a donater's benefit

#RealmsOfTrinity

DM Narshe wrote:

V'rass wrote:Btw any timeframe on how long 100% RCR will last unless they make it permanent?

We'll give a few days notice before taking it down.

please please please leave this up well after everything is fixed and set in stone. All I have done since the updates went in, (dev's and dm's too) is help people rcr and test the update things .. I (and many others who are spending all their time testing etc) will need time to RCR our own characters please once everything is set and working.

NegInfinity wrote:Less grinding and questing and more acting.

That's the way I see it.

TBH, I think you have a point there.

I just don't know if a mechanic that would allow instant rebuilds into whatever you want, whenever you want, would be a totally appropriate fix for this issue.

For sure it would eliminate a lot of grinding, and it's honestly what brought me back for a few days. I wanted to save myself hours of grinding in the future, so when I heard about the 100% RCR thing, I scrambled back into the server, foaming at the mouth.

*shrug* Just being honest.

But the potential for exploit in the long term is pretty big, don't you think? If there's a powerbuild I want, but the first fifteen levels are tough to get through, I just grind it out as a druid (or something), and then switch over to whatever I originally had in mind.

Or one of my PCs was a rogue, but tomorrow he is inexplicably a favored soul. Or now I can have that level 30 drow I've always wanted, for free.

But I'm trying to imagine your counterargument. I guess from your point of view, would you say that imposing a hundred hours of grinding on everyone is not an appropriate way to limit such exploits, especially on an RP server?

I mean, I guess if we allowed 100% RCR all the time, it would eliminate a lot of the appeal of powerbuilding, since anyone could do it at anytime. Eventually, once everyone had a powerbuild and sated their appetite for it, they'd settle down and RP? That's a thought, but I don't know if that is what would happen in reality.

I guess I honestly just don't know, lol. I have a conservative gut reaction to the idea of keeping it 100% all the time. But I do see where you are coming from.

I'll be honest. Before the recent updates, I've RCR'd PCs and taken the XP hit because they were turning out to be classes I didn't expect when I made them. I kept the race/alignment but classes certainly changed. Was it RPd? Sure but part of an excuse for the change was me being away for multiple RL reasons and I can use it as an excuse for the RCR change I did before the unplanned hiatus. Did I care that I had to work at getting where the PC was level-wise? Nope. I RCR'd anyways. Have I RCR'd one higher level PC to make a completely different PC so that I didn't have to run kobolds, lizards/gibberlings, goblins, and orcs? Yup. Does that make me an idiot? No, that happened long ago.

The point is, the RCR percentage won't prevent changes. I suppose the question at hand may be, will it increase them? That's the question, I think. If we assume people, by nature, are abusive of boundaries, then yes, it will increase. I we think that the exceptions are those that abuse, than I suppose no.

More than gold or loot, the greatest commodity of a game like this is time. The RCR NPC is the one who oversees that commodity. The question is how to deal with that commodity.

Charraj wrote: But the potential for exploit in the long term is pretty big, don't you think?

There's always potential for exploit somewhere. Right now, there's a fairly simple way to get gold, except I haven't heard of anyone using that. Instead of being afraid of every possible exploit, it makes more sense to make life easier for the people who play fair. And ban whoever exploits the system.Because those people who play fair are the target audience...

Charraj wrote: If there's a powerbuild I want, but the first fifteen levels are tough to get through, I just grind it out as a druid (or something), and then switch over to whatever I originally had in mind.

As long as both characters contribute to the environment, I don't have a problem with that.
People were already doing that before. Level 20 dwarf into level 14 non-dwarf monk, for example. The character was great.

Charraj wrote: Or one of my PCs was a rogue, but tomorrow he is inexplicably a favored soul.

I also don't do that. If your char does that, it is not my problem, either way. Same thing if you want to play immortal and stay around for 50 years, changing classes. Not my char, not my problem. My rogue would stay rogue, although it may turn into assassin, wizard would stay wizard, sorc would stay sorc, and nobody would suddenly become a divine caster if they weren't one already.

Charraj wrote: Or now I can have that level 30 drow I've always wanted, for free.

You won't get level 30 drow without leveling another drow first. Ecl + 2, remember?

I just see the xp as an indicator of time somebody spent on the server. "Getting there slowly" most of the time just wastes player's RL time (which you won't get back) and doesn't contribute to anybody's in-game experience. If someone have been arount the server for a while, no point in wasting their time again.

I could probably agree with 50% xp penalty or no-rcr policy if XP was on neverwinter 2 campaign level or at least at sigil level. But with current xp rate, the only purpose 50% penalty system serves is punishing people for playing or accidentally making a mistake.

Most of the arguments against 100% rcr can be answered with "doesnt that happen already, just with a 50% xp fee?". My question would be, is "charging" 50% xp for something that is obviously frowned upon sensible? If that is the case we are basically saying "you switched from a rogue to a favored soul on the same character with no rp, but you paid 50% xp and you are getting a stinkeye from me so it's fine". There are either rules against that sort of behavior or there are not, pretending 50% xp at rcr is a fee for it is not sensible.

That said, I don't think 100% xp should remain. It should possibly be an option for characters every few months. The first thought that crossed my mind was "oh cool, I'm gonna level a crossbow sniper to late teens, then im gonna rcr into a fs, then i will rcr that into something I really want to play". It's a bad mechanic inviting bad habits, and overall, a crutch used to deal with a not-so-good xp system which bg has. That is the main problem here and the reason people started foaming at their mouth at the thought of 100% rcr. Everyone knows the amount of time and senseless effort required to progress mechanically on bg (including quests...) especially in epic levels. Instead of asking for 100% rcr to stay, I think we should seriously consider a revamp of the xp system.

NegInfinity wrote:You won't get level 30 drow without leveling another drow first. Ecl + 2, remember?

the hard xp cap is basically level 33 or 34 for the highest ecl (cant remember if svirfs were 3 or 4 ecl but yea) so yes you can, you just have to hit the cap first

my rogue hit it years ago, first noticed when i got negative xp from something because a DM put her over the cap and it took it away

So I gave it more thought. I think we can all agree that grinding is terrible drudgery. And I guess if this server is supposed to be an RP server, why keep a system that only encourages grinding and takes away from RP?

*shrug* I honestly can't put my finger on WHY I have a negative conservative gut reaction to the idea of keeping 100% RCR. The reasons I gave above are decent reasons, but it's also true that those exploits could still happen to some extent with 50% RCR.

I guess I would ask how things are going right now, with the 100% RCR. Have there been any exploits anyone has seen? Or have things improved? Is there more RP going on right now?

If things DO seem better right now, is that just because 100% RCR is still a novelty? If it became the norm, would things somehow devolve into a river of tears?

A sobering thought: has BG retained its playerbase partly because of the grinding aspect of the server? In the past, I have found myself logging in to grind to the next level, out of addiction or habit (you guys know what I'm talking about, amirite ). If we eliminated grinding, would people stop playing?