Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Could you guys, I don't know, not turn it into another finger-pointing match?

When people switch into "us vs them" mode, those kinds of threads get locked fast. All players are on the same team in the end, even when their characters are not.

"Players"

I don't know about everyone else but Loghain was one of the people who was actually working to stop Kagger and hamper his operations throughout the coast. I placed wanted posters everywhere and provided information to those who had the power to actually take Kagger down. Heck, I even prepared myself as best I could just in case I had to go one on one with Kagger in the wilderness somewhere. He saw Kagger as a real threat and a villain and like any other paladin made every effort to stop him not because I held an OOC grudge or anything but because it's what my character would do. He is, after all, a paladin and charged with the defense of the coast.

What I don't understand is why people have to be tempted OOCly to complain to the dms or send insulting tells to the players controlling the villains to deal with them rather than trying to kill them IC. Is it because people don't want to get permadeathed on a character that they have been working very hard for for several months? Probably. But guys come on...everyone dies at some point and we have to accept that. We should be working with the dm's in-game to find and take down the evil toons and their villainous plots before they come to fruition rather than sending in pm complaints on the forums.

Snarfy wrote:

RedLancer wrote:It's, like, you gotta read, man.

We can read just fine. Perhaps it's yourself(with your whopping 9th and 10th posts ever) that need to read

Wew, what a robust argument lad.

xLegionx wrote:I don't know about everyone else but Loghain

And you should keep doing that. Interacting with your char was very entertaining.

Permadeath can be a great reward at the end of a good story. So, I don't understand why people see someone's possible permadeath as a problem. Your character could always die for real. It could always happen. It was always a risk.

So, at all times keep in mind, that all players are on the same team - story writing team. Characters are not their players, IC and OOC are separate, etc, etc, etc.

I think the best way to deal with this re-occuring problem of good vs evil and everyone thinking that the DM's are siding with each other is to appoint the new DM's they recruit to certain sections.

Having DM's in the categories of Alignment vs Culture vs Faction vs Guild would be a great thing for everyone. It would allow those who want to play "Exotic" roles or have "Exotic" guilds in the server a chance to do so and even allow players who want to play an unexciting normal role to do so as well. (In regards to it being rewarding in a mechanical position and a Story Line position). Which would create a over-arching and compelling story for EVERYONE in the server. Not just a select few who have either, been on the server a long time to work up that story for themselves, or have had DM support from the start.

And this act of if a player is a problem, tell a DM, if a DM is a problem ask a HDM, if a HDM is a problem ask Luna is also not the best way of providing a solution. Telling a DM to talk to other DM's about another DM? No you should allow the Players to give their opinion on what that DM did wrong or right and then resource a higher teir of DM after that fact or players will continue to believe the DM's are simply siding with each other because the trial is being hidden behind a curtain to the public.

The Whistler wrote:Wew, what a robust argument lad.

I think you forgot to quote the rest of the argument. Not that "read"(which I'm quite capable of doing, and did) warrants much of a rebuttal, lad(far less than I offered at least, but I'm generous that way).

Maximvs wrote:The massively metagaming team good ( that doesn't seem to do it out of spite, but unconsciously metagames by swarming at any location where there's something going on ) not only is extremely rarely punished for it, but it's not even educated toward better RP ( better as in fun for everybody ).

To be fair, team evil does this as well. Solution: go anon on the scry, and if people mysteriously swarm to your location then load up Fraps and call them out on it.

Thorsson wrote:I'd like to remind people of two things about Evil:

1. Evil does not have to mean 'Stupid Evil'

2. Evil PC does not have to want to take over 'Ze World'.

It seems that many posters here have fallen into Camp 2. It's not the only way to play Evil.

+1.

The air of this thread is getting a bit warm. Eat some icecream, everyone.

If there is metagaming going on, we DMs can't do anything about it unless it is reported. So, as we so often try to remind: Screenshot and PM the DMs.

Snarfy wrote:

The Whistler wrote:Wew, what a robust argument lad.

I think you forgot to quote the rest of the argument. Not that "read"(which I'm quite capable of doing, and did) warrants much of a rebuttal, lad(far less than I offered at least, but I'm generous that way).

Maximvs wrote:The massively metagaming team good ( that doesn't seem to do it out of spite, but unconsciously metagames by swarming at any location where there's something going on ) not only is extremely rarely punished for it, but it's not even educated toward better RP ( better as in fun for everybody ).

To be fair, team evil does this as well. Solution: go anon on the scry, and if people mysteriously swarm to your location then load up Fraps and call them out on it.

Thorsson wrote:I'd like to remind people of two things about Evil:

1. Evil does not have to mean 'Stupid Evil'

2. Evil PC does not have to want to take over 'Ze World'.

It seems that many posters here have fallen into Camp 2. It's not the only way to play Evil.

+1.

I +1 this as well. I hate to see people resorting to metagaming to resolve their issues rather than finding a way IC to deal with their problems. It's something that should be discouraged and imo something that should be punished if discovered.

(edit)Playing evil does not always have to mean dominating the world. What about becoming a billionaire by robbing the dukes of all their coin? Or try to become a duke yourself? Or just run an assassin's guild or something idk...use your imagination.

NegInfinity wrote:

xLegionx wrote:I don't know about everyone else but Loghain

And you should keep doing that. Interacting with your char was very entertaining.

Thanks!! I'm glad I'm doing it right so far.

kkrazlite wrote:I think the best way to deal with this re-occuring problem of good vs evil and everyone thinking that the DM's are siding with each other is to appoint the new DM's they recruit to certain sections.

Having DM's in the categories of Alignment vs Culture vs Faction vs Guild would be a great thing for everyone. It would allow those who want to play "Exotic" roles or have "Exotic" guilds in the server a chance to do so and even allow players who want to play an unexciting normal role to do so as well. (In regards to it being rewarding in a mechanical position and a Story Line position). Which would create a over-arching and compelling story for EVERYONE in the server. Not just a select few who have either, been on the server a long time to work up that story for themselves, or have had DM support from the start.

And this act of if a player is a problem, tell a DM, if a DM is a problem ask a HDM, if a HDM is a problem ask Luna is also not the best way of providing a solution. Telling a DM to talk to other DM's about another DM? No you should allow the Players to give their opinion on what that DM did wrong or right and then resource a higher teir of DM after that fact or players will continue to believe the DM's are simply siding with each other because the trial is being hidden behind a curtain to the public.

Wrong!

This would never work! You want every Dm to work with every faction when they can if they have the time. If you have only 1 dm working for 1 team you end up with a bias Dm at the end of it. You want all perspectives. The same way Dialectic, Bloody, Ghost, Pun Pun, Golem. They all worked with different factions. Being Good Or Bad. You don't want a Bias Dm.

kkrazlite wrote:I think the best way to deal with this re-occuring problem of good vs evil and everyone thinking that the DM's are siding with each other is to appoint the new DM's they recruit to certain sections.

Having DM's in the categories of Alignment vs Culture vs Faction vs Guild would be a great thing for everyone. It would allow those who want to play "Exotic" roles or have "Exotic" guilds in the server a chance to do so and even allow players who want to play an unexciting normal role to do so as well. (In regards to it being rewarding in a mechanical position and a Story Line position). Which would create a over-arching and compelling story for EVERYONE in the server. Not just a select few who have either, been on the server a long time to work up that story for themselves, or have had DM support from the start.

And this act of if a player is a problem, tell a DM, if a DM is a problem ask a HDM, if a HDM is a problem ask Luna is also not the best way of providing a solution. Telling a DM to talk to other DM's about another DM? No you should allow the Players to give their opinion on what that DM did wrong or right and then resource a higher teir of DM after that fact or players will continue to believe the DM's are simply siding with each other because the trial is being hidden behind a curtain to the public.

ADD: DM's can be secretive as well. If it was a situation against them there would be some who would open up and claim their wrong doings. But there will be others who will simply side with the argument that benefits their-selves. I am not calling out any DM's for this nor am i saying it as a context that DM's do it. But you guys have to realize that: DM's resorting to DM's for DM problems. You can already see the problem with that sentence. The players are not involved instead of the few who reported that DM in the first place.

kkrazlite wrote:No you should allow the Players to give their opinion on what that DM did wrong or right and then resource a higher teir of DM after that fact or players will continue to believe the DM's are simply siding with each other because the trial is being hidden behind a curtain to the public.

Openly criticizing DMs??? In which world would that suggestion ever work? On an imaginary, perfect world it can work. The internet aint it.

Openly criticizing others ( players or DMs ) will most certainly result in a toxic environment and critisism will be made mostly based on assumptions.

Snarfy wrote:I think you forgot to quote the rest of the argument. Not that "read"(which I'm quite capable of doing, and did) warrants much of a rebuttal, lad(far less than I offered at least, but I'm generous that way).

The fact that you stooped to bringing a player's post count into your argument made believe there wasn't much substance to it. And well what do you know, I was right.

kkrazlite wrote:

kkrazlite wrote:I think the best way to deal with this re-occuring problem of good vs evil and everyone thinking that the DM's are siding with each other is to appoint the new DM's they recruit to certain sections.

Having DM's in the categories of Alignment vs Culture vs Faction vs Guild would be a great thing for everyone. It would allow those who want to play "Exotic" roles or have "Exotic" guilds in the server a chance to do so and even allow players who want to play an unexciting normal role to do so as well. (In regards to it being rewarding in a mechanical position and a Story Line position). Which would create a over-arching and compelling story for EVERYONE in the server. Not just a select few who have either, been on the server a long time to work up that story for themselves, or have had DM support from the start.

And this act of if a player is a problem, tell a DM, if a DM is a problem ask a HDM, if a HDM is a problem ask Luna is also not the best way of providing a solution. Telling a DM to talk to other DM's about another DM? No you should allow the Players to give their opinion on what that DM did wrong or right and then resource a higher teir of DM after that fact or players will continue to believe the DM's are simply siding with each other because the trial is being hidden behind a curtain to the public.

ADD: DM's can be secretive as well. If it was a situation against them there would be some who would open up and claim their wrong doings. But there will be others who will simply side with the argument that benefits their-selves. I am not calling out any DM's for this nor am i saying it as a context that DM's do it. But you guys have to realize that: DM's resorting to DM's for DM problems. You can already see the problem with that sentence. The players are not involved instead of the few who reported that DM in the first place.

He fixed it. I'm ok with this.

mrm3ntalist wrote:

kkrazlite wrote:No you should allow the Players to give their opinion on what that DM did wrong or right and then resource a higher teir of DM after that fact or players will continue to believe the DM's are simply siding with each other because the trial is being hidden behind a curtain to the public.

Openly criticizing DMs??? In which world would that suggestion ever work? On an imaginary, perfect world it can work. The internet aint it.

Openly criticizing others ( players or DMs ) will most certainly result in a toxic environment and critisism will be made mostly based on assumptions.

I'm simply giving my opinion. There is no hostility from me nor would there be, this is not my game nor is it my server and this forum is here for a reason. To allow us the players and the DM's to discuss and compromise how the game and the server could improve and opinions matter in that case.