Suggestion: The RCR Token

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RCR token!?

I like it!
28
58%
No way!
12
25%
Maybe... *shifty eyes*
8
17%
 
Total votes: 48

Mallore
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Re: Suggestion: The RCR Token

Unread post by Mallore »

Steve wrote:
Play a rogue. 10 ranks in hide and ms can drastically affect your rp.
If you are playing your level, then it's just about right, yes?

@Akroma: nothing, and I mean NOTHING, will ever best my 1965 Plymouth Barracuda. 8-) More power as "the point," is, I dare say, what not only lessons the experience of this Server, but is slowly destroying the very planet we live on in Real Life.

Nope. :). This was about level not mattering and it does.


Also really, 1965 Plymouth barracuda. granted a fair car and better then most but not the defining moment for the genre of American muscle or body design.

First up the 1969 Plymouth road runner. Hands down bad of the bad :). Followed by staple machine of awesome the 1965 Pontiac GTO. Now history you gotta give it to Boss 302 and yes far nicer then the Camero Z28.

Of course the crown goes to the Shelby. Best in style, power and defiantly level 30. ;)


Sorry for topic.
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Steve
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Re: Suggestion: The RCR Token

Unread post by Steve »

Mallore wrote: This was about level not mattering and it does.
Exactly. Level 1 matters just as much as Level 30. :twisted:

Obviously, for some, they need to feel they have a big block, over style.

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Re: Suggestion: The RCR Token

Unread post by ragnarok1983 »

Steve wrote:Before the 50% RCR, before the 100% RCR, we all made building mistakes, and we learned from them. This Community also has a Building section for asking others to help you to NOT make mistakes in the first place! ...[truncated]
The thing is, you may start with a concept... but myself and many others don't make static characters. I might start off going "This guy is going to be A. Ssassin McDaggerstabby!" and after in-game interactions and plots have shifted the actual character he becomes Repenty McHealydude.

I don't see a reason to continue Swordy's "original build" because I lack the OOC feats/skills required to take classes that actually represent the character's development.

My own personal example is Paws. I made Paws as... I think my second character on this server. I was fairly new to RP. He was going to be a SD/Rogue/FB. Yes, Paws had shadowdancer levels at one point.

Does ANYONE think of Paws as stealthy? Heck no. Not even me. And I STILL want to rebuild him (always, pretty much). But seriously... Paws... a rogue/shadowdancer... with a HALBERD!? No. That just wasn't him (well, the halberd part is). RCR.

Now what sucked is Paws was level 21 then. Do you know that Paws hasn't been an epic character since 2010? I don't grind. Not much. Play infrequently. But I have RCR'd him 5+ times, slowly honing him to the character he has become. MOST of those times was either at 0%, rarely 50%, and one time at 100% RCR. But because of all of this, never again has he reached level 21.

I am not alone in this. There are surely many casual players out there that suffered the same fate.

Anyway, if you can 100% choose your build and follow it from level 1... that is a fairly static character. Nothing wrong with that, but I just can't play characters that don't change over time.

It's not about mistakes, but sometimes about changes in character that cannot be represented due to character build rules, powergaming rules, or whatever.

*I can't justify punishing everyone because of people that seek to manipulate *ANY* system we provide in this game. The powergamers, cheaters, etc. will always be there.
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Mallore
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Re: Suggestion: The RCR Token

Unread post by Mallore »

Steve wrote:
Mallore wrote: This was about level not mattering and it does.
Exactly. Level 1 matters just as much as Level 30. :twisted:

Obviously, for some, they need to feel they have a big block, over style.


Size matters. ;)
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Re: Suggestion: The RCR Token

Unread post by Maecius »

The exploits are the lesser issue in my eyes. The primary issue is long-term server viability. If there is no growth then, by definition, things do become static.

The server's set up to be a journey as much as anything else, with each level of map introducing you to more of the world, and allowing you to interact with a cast of a variety of characters at a variety of "stages" in their careers -- from "just starting out" to "local celebrity."

The RCR wasn't ever really intended to allow people to fine-tune their character builds. It's not a trainer. I'll just ask Rasael to see if he can find some time to update JEGS with the new spell and feat scripts if people want to do that.

As far as reinventing a character goes, I don't see why there shouldn't be some experience loss associated with changing your career track. If you have been mastering one set of skills and suddenly decide to switch over to another, why would you automatically be considered a master at that new set of skills? Being a professional musician doesn't necessarily make you an excellent photographer.

I know that leaving it as is would be the easiest road to travel (and would produce the most short-term happiness), but I am just not honestly convinced it would be the best thing for the server. Especially over time. When I leave here, I want to leave believing that this server will carry on for years without me. Not that it will gradually stagnate and corrode after we remove a huge element of forward character progression (that is, "leveling up") and "adventuring" from the D&D equation.
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Re: Suggestion: The RCR Token

Unread post by Steve »

Kinda impossible to argue against Big Mac's reasoning, init?! :lol:

I vote Maecius for Captain of the Debate Team! 8-)

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Re: Suggestion: The RCR Token

Unread post by NegInfinity »

Maecius wrote:The exploits are the lesser issue in my eyes. The primary issue is long-term server viability. If there is no growth then, by definition, things do become static.

The server's set up to be a journey as much as anything else, with each level of map introducing you to more of the world, and allowing you to interact with a cast of a variety of characters at a variety of "stages" in their careers -- from "just starting out" to "local celebrity."

The RCR wasn't ever really intended to allow people to fine-tune their character builds. It's not a trainer. I'll just ask Rasael to see if he can find some time to update JEGS with the new spell and feat scripts if people want to do that.

As far as reinventing a character goes, I don't see why there shouldn't be some experience loss associated with changing your career track. If you have been mastering one set of skills and suddenly decide to switch over to another, why would you automatically be considered a master at that new set of skills? Being a professional musician doesn't necessarily make you an excellent photographer.

I know that leaving it as is would be the easiest road to travel (and would produce the most short-term happiness), but I am just not honestly convinced it would be the best thing for the server. Especially over time. When I leave here, I want to leave believing that this server will carry on for years without me. Not that it will gradually stagnate and corrode after we remove a huge element of forward character progression (that is, "leveling up") and "adventuring" from the D&D equation.
Maecius, it is not possible to predict the future and nobody really knows what'll be "right" for the server long term. (how long term are we talking about here, by the way?)

The way I see it, there are at least two kinds of players - long term and short term players. Long term player could probably play one char for 6 years, and aim big - all the way up to ascending to godhood. Short term player would switch characters from time to time, maybe every few months, and would not try heavily involved stuff like, I don't know, attempting to replace captain norton with a devil shapeshifter, in the name of asmodeous, or teleport baldur's gate into far realm and the like.

The way I see it, both players are important. "Short-term" players create background for plot of long term players. And long term affect bigger arc that shape the world for short-term players. For decent environment you need both of those.

Without background characters that come and go, the world will be reduced to small groups of the same people duking it out against each other every weekend and the world will be very dull. You'll know everybody and things will be incredibly predictable. Without long-term players there will be no significant events and long plots. The world will become static, but chaotic.

So, in case of RCR... I don't exactly agree on use of RCR for fine-tuning characters (although I can understand situation of a honest mistake), but I think it should be available at 100% for the purposes of creating a new concept. You know, because people have jobs, xp gain on bgtscc is incredibly slow, and running through the starter dungeons gets old 50th time you do it. While a character creater through RCR may not have enough "long-term impact" or "history" on the server, it'll work perfectly fine as someone for other people to interact with or as an alternative to having a DM-run npc. Because DMs aren't online 24/7 too.
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Steve
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Re: Suggestion: The RCR Token

Unread post by Steve »

Don't Level 30 new concepts also created a static, possibly stagnant, environment?

How does a Level 30—oh, let's just say epic levels—new concept create anymore long or short impact on plots, over a Level 1-yearning-for-30 Character or concept?

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chad878262
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Re: Suggestion: The RCR Token

Unread post by chad878262 »

If the past 6 months is any indication, full RCR really just promotes a lot of players to switch builds every other day/week. I think we have all had that strange moment with a PC we have RP'd with previously shows up as a completely different concept, can suddenly cast spells (or lost the ability), went from a sneaky character to a tank, or whatever else. RP continuity is harmed and some players lose interest since their previous RP is constantly becoming moot or character's they have a history with suddenly disappear all together if they don't change to the point of no longer being the same 'person'.

In the end I think Maecius said it best so I won't repeat any more, but at the end of the day it was always stated to be a short term option and a long term notice was given in advance so I would simply state everyone should decide what character build/type they want to play and simply start working toward that. There is still nearly three weeks before RCR goes away, so just use the time wisely.
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Re: Suggestion: The RCR Token

Unread post by Herisheft »

There should be a possibility to recieve RcR help from DMs in cases when you screw up something in your build during the way, which happens as we know, and it destroys your character. Its frustrating when such little thing then follows you and irritates the guts out of you, specially when it would take last level to correct it. Personally, I was in such situation and I was beyond angry when I was told to RcR whole character because of a missclick which I made 2 minutes earlier. In such cases I think that player should be able to recieve help from a DM just by asking him in the Nexus. Its not a big deal to take 1 level and give it back, it's not career or rp changing matter, and mountains will not crumble from it. You should also be able to ask about RcRing up to last 5 levels, but after detailed explanation to the DM Team why you need to do it, provide old build and chnaged one, and then under the eye of a DM do the procedure. Even cut 25% of xp from those levels as payment, its still less painfull than RcRing whole character for it. This possibility should really exist in cases when you just need to COORECT your character and NOT change it. Mistakes happen and they will happen even with build in front of your eyes.
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Re: Suggestion: The RCR Token

Unread post by Valefort »

Can't you ask a DM to substract exp from you ? At least this used to be possible, just go 1 exp under the level up, kill a local snail for 1 exp and you're sorted.
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chad878262
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Re: Suggestion: The RCR Token

Unread post by chad878262 »

Valefort wrote:Can't you ask a DM to substract exp from you ? At least this used to be possible, just go 1 exp under the level up, kill a local snail for 1 exp and you're sorted.
QFT

That said, there are multiple issues with delevelling... the fact remains that their are exploits and, frankly our DM team is stretched rather thin in general. DM's have logged in and been unable to do any events due to player requests being so high. While I can understand the frustration of a misclick (has happened to me too), I also feel that DM's goal to support as many characters as possible means if they open up to being the 'watchdogs' to make sure folks aren't cheating on RCR's then they probably won't have time for much else...
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Re: Suggestion: The RCR Token

Unread post by Herisheft »

Valefort wrote:Can't you ask a DM to substract exp from you ? At least this used to be possible, just go 1 exp under the level up, kill a local snail for 1 exp and you're sorted.
Imagine that you can't. I asked exactlly for that and I was said "no".
I also feel that DM's goal to support as many characters as possible means if they open up to being the 'watchdogs' to make sure folks aren't cheating on RCR's then they probably won't have time for much else...
Taking ONE level or ONE xp, how is that creating a possibility to cheat or exploit?
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Re: Suggestion: The RCR Token

Unread post by chad878262 »

Herisheft wrote:Taking ONE level or ONE xp, how is that creating a possibility to cheat or exploit?
We generally do not put exploits in to forum posts, but to give a fairly simple one, you could learn extra wizard spells by levelling up, taking your two spells, getting de-levelled and selecting two more. This is why RCR bot takes all XP And deletes the character vs. having a separate bot in the Nexus to allow for taking away and giving back XP. There are many bugs / exploits that can occur when you delevel/relevel and it can even cause your character file to become corrupt if I recall. The DM *MIGHT* have said no because they did not know all the technical stuff that they need to check in order to ensure by deleveling you they didn't cause you more problems with a corrupted character... Only the DM in question could specifically state this, but I do believe that if a DM knows how to do something they will often at least look at your character and determine if a de-level is possible to address your issue without breaking anything. However, not every DM knows this and I imagine they would err on the side of caution if they weren't certain.
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NegInfinity
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Re: Suggestion: The RCR Token

Unread post by NegInfinity »

chad878262 wrote:If the past 6 months is any indication, full RCR really just promotes a lot of players to switch builds every other day/week. I think we have all had that strange moment with a PC we have RP'd with previously shows up as a completely different concept, can suddenly cast spells (or lost the ability), went from a sneaky character to a tank, or whatever else. RP continuity is harmed and some players lose interest since their previous RP is constantly becoming moot or character's they have a history with suddenly disappear all together if they don't change to the point of no longer being the same 'person'.
In this case it would make sense to forbid "fine-tuning" RCR for the same character, while allowing free RCR into a new concept.

Insisting that "everybody must start at level 1" hurts roleplaying as well.

When all characters start at level 1, high-level characters can create cliques that will be able to crush any sort of newcomer effortlessly due to mechanical power - no matter how often people claim that "all levels matter", level 1 newcomer most of the time is not a danger to anybody. Also, people sorta just form small groups that persist over weeks, tend to interact only with the people of that group, and butting into that group is hard. Another problem is that when an event starts and you know 75% of characters there every time. That just kills sense of wonder or "realism" and make the world look small.

Meanwhile allowing player to roll a new concept creates unpredictability, because you'll be able to meet strangers which are unknown variables. You meet someone, and you don't know how strong they are, what their intentions are, if they're going to stay or will leave later. That'll give plenty of reason to stay on your toes and be ware of someone you never saw before.

In the end I think that the server needs both "temporary" and "permanent" characters, because they both contribute to the world in a different way.
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