Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Wings should not grant a constant movement buff, as that is a class feature to some already.

Second the idea your wings make you move faster implies your always flying. So expeditious retreat is far more representing for accuracy. As you can not fly 24/7. You just die of exhaustion. Wings also according to pnp can give certian people circumstances bonus to notice you. Hard to stealth with those bad boys. A five foot man would need a ten foot wing span. Do you get to be a larger target when flying or can not use your Movement in certian areas?


Anyways. Other questions, take as seriously as you like.

Will you be able to sell wings off people you kill for coin? They gotta be an awesome spell component.

What happens when you cut off a players wings?


Also you can not remove armor plates from enchanted armor to accommodate your wings with out losing protection and damaging the wards. So the price to redo armor for wings is? Also the shoulder line for wings does not line up to removable peices.

What about FS of evil gods. Does this mean they will no longer be able to hide there evil (shouldn't be able to they are FS!). As we see giant demon or bat wings. Should they not be kill on sight. This is FR the cities and people go from zero to murder mob on words alone.

Does this mean divine and infernal plane touched get their wings too?

Can I get a cloak of flight made of FS wings. Maybe it will come with their dr too?

People with feathered wings. Do they malt?

It rains a lot on the coast. Can they not fly then too?

Wings should not offer tumble. But perhaps be a slightly better version of Mobility Feat.


I lvoe wings. I love it being special. I love it in the realm of npc only. To many rp blowing mind issues, also mechanically..... Saddening.

Why not yes to wings, but flagged for auto PvP consent? Also unable to enter towns?

Mallore wrote:Will you be able to sell wings off people you kill for coin? They gotta be an awesome spell component.

What happens when you cut off a players wings?


Also you can not remove armor plates from enchanted armor to accommodate your wings with out losing protection and damaging the wards. So the price to redo armor for wings is? Also the shoulder line for wings does not line up to removable peices.

What about FS of evil gods. Does this mean they will no longer be able to hide there evil (shouldn't be able to they are FS!). As we see giant demon or bat wings. Should they not be kill on sight. This is FR the cities and people go from zero to murder mob on words alone.

Does this mean divine and infernal plane touched get their wings too?

I agree with a lot of what you said Mallore, but it should be noted that a FS of an evil deity does not necessarily have to be evil, follow the deity they are favored of or even know they are 'chosen'. (Drizzt is supposedly a chosen of Lloth and Mielikki, if I recall correctly). However, this brings up a bit of a conundrum... If you have a 'paladin' of Helm RP wise who is a Favored Soul of Bane (somehow) do you end up with bat wings or feathers? I assume bat since the 'gift' would come from Bane and not be based upon your characters alignment/philosophy...

I personally don't like the idea of wings on player characters... Dragon Disciples, Tieflings, Favored Soul or otherwise they just are a bit too much a stretch for me. That said, if a decision is made in the future to include them as per PnP there will certainly be a good deal of mechanic/rules considerations. Should a tiefling, aasimar or other appropriate races be allowed to decide they have wings or not? If so should they get whatever mechanical benefit FS get's? (and at first level no less!) Should wings add an ECL regardless of race to account for the added benefit?

TLDR, I agree with Mallore's end point, wings bring up a LOT of issues that need to accounted for, unless we want to deal with a bunch of complaints over other races/classes that should receive wings down the road and what impacts those mechanical benefits should be. Even if we just leave FS alone with the 3/day haste, should any other class/race get wings players will be calling out the fact that they should gain the same benefit...Ugh!

Why would it be auto PvP consent ?

Why would they be unable to enter towns ?

I understand it mostly takes care of the issue of the reactions of the NPCs but such a blanket measure is arbitrary and can't have an RP justification for every settlement out there, be it for lack of law enforcement group, or simply will to do it, that's not doable. Not to mention it would fall on DM shoulders to enforce that unless you somehow forbid town areas through coding force ... which lead to other silly situations.

I am of the no wings voice, in my opinion the server will devolve into an MMO of some sort where everyone, their mother and their dog all have wings reason or not. Just to be a cool cat or what have you. Not saying they are not kewl because come on wings angel/demon pretty awesome. But I do not want to see the server turn into some MMO sparkle magic variant with fairy wings and the whole nine.

Also why add in extra mechanics and more work on the developers and such just to have some wings?

Actually, getting the wing required amount of levels from FS would constitute a rare commitment to class on the server.
The gain of wings in return for losing 3xhaste id say seem a way of actually nerfing FS, and it gets complaints?

Why next I expect votes for the removal of HIPS (unfair!), good orcs (by far rarer than favored souls?) and toons getting oiled and feathered for associating with tieflings.


Seriously, pretty much every caster class on the server has some ability to shower the area with meteors, hellballs, thunder strikes, planar beings and generally cause disaster for farmer john.
They may turn into a pletora of wierd creatures including dragon and so on.

The above has been going on for years, now some players moan about disbelief should some characters possibly have wings?!


Are we to truly believe all those who are opposed to favored souls gaining wings are also in favor of removing the shape shifting ability of casters into winged creatures then?


Fine by me if thats the majority vote, regardless of outcome.

Yes, I have a favored soul I rarely play these days.
No, I really do not care if it is allowed wings or not.

/M

Edit: On a more serious note I think Paladin and Blackguard deserve getting their steeds in by some twist of the companion feat(?) (even if they cant be ridden) prior to any change in regards to wings for favored souls or not.

But costume wings are here already so either we decide to consider the wing conundrum first, or we postpone the issue.
While demanding of players who do add wings to their costumes to post about the fakeness of the wings their character carry in the character description or face a first strike permadeath of the toon.

Raise your hand if you even once saw a single humanoid in the original BG game with wings... no? Didn't think so.

How about some source material that even vaguely mentions any race/class having wings during pre-ToT on the Sword Coast? ... yeeeeah, good luck.

And I wont even get started on the absurd amount of snowflakey RP that will likely be generated by players running around with wings on their toons.

Yes, it is not like we have seen the same kind of behaviour using various monster shapes right?

Really, what would be new by adding another chance at snowflakeyness at this point?
Mechanically we have anything from elemental hair with growing seashells in it to horns, as is.
Beyond that there are the descripted and emoted fangs, tails, forked tongues, scaly skin and the sword coast only knows what.

Whats actually new with adding wings?


Nothing wrong with removing the class all together in my book Snarfy due to the reasons you stated, it were a late addition to PnP just like Warlock and Orcs as a playable race.

@Storm Munin, in my opinion the problem of favored souls getting wings is that it would be a permanent feature and not something temporary like shapeshifting, they wouldn't be able to dismiss them to blend in the crowd. Something that I expect most druids actually do unless they want to terrorize towns running through it in dragon form

If by some strange chance we actually do go with adding wings, I suggest that the one time choice be left to the player via script in the nexus. I imagine some people will not want to play having them while others will insist having them in hues of pink.

But would not a permanent fixture actually demand more roleplaying under those situations, as opposed to the shift out of naughty shape to enter town behaviour sacrificing nothing?
We already have fully exposed horned tieflings, tusked orcs and halforcs walking the streets of Baldur's gate with their heads raised high.

Meanwhile the average Baldurian has suffered numerous dragon strikes, charges by undead hoards, months of famine a few times e t c in the past 7 years.
Beyond that they have their heroes of the city head bowling at one gala dinner or another.
Id say their bar at raising a brow should be fairly high by now.

Yes, I am somewhat playing devil's advocate here.

/M

I would like to see the wings added as well, even if they provide no additional mechanical benefit. Along with the Tails for the Tieflings please.

Of course both of these should be optional to the PC's. Not all will want to have wings and tails.

Eclypticon wrote:... while others will insist having them in hues of pink.

Oh yes, the winged folk will likely be flocking(PUN!) to the tailor to have their feathers pruned, glittered, and dyed... sounds awesome!






BUT, let it never be said that I am not a man of compromise... and if FS's are going to get wings, lets have it so that it requires taking a feat at level 30, plus full levels of Favored Soul investment. Heck, if a player is masochistic dedicated enough to do that then they deserve to have their haste 3x a day to go along with their plucky little wings.

Storm Munin wrote:But would not a permanent fixture actually demand more roleplaying under those situations, as opposed to the shift out of naughty shape to enter town behaviour sacrificing nothing?
We already have fully exposed horned tieflings, tusked orcs and halforcs walking the streets of Baldur's gate with their heads raised high.

Meanwhile the average Baldurian has suffered numerous dragon strikes, charges by undead hoards, months of famine a few times e t c in the past 7 years.
Id say their bar at raising a brow should be fairly high by now.

Yes, I am somewhat playing devil's advocate here.

/M

I have never been quite sure why Teiflings are not blamed for everything and anything for any reason of the whims of the people.

The lore is very clear in the books. You do not show off your horns, wings and stuff and you hide your face, you avoid public places. Simply you, yourself being who you are is walking sin incarnate in the minds of the common folk.

but thats just me.

Mallore wrote:I have never been quite sure why Teiflings are not blamed for everything and anything for any reason of the whims of the people.

Because the moment that you start to ostracize a character IC'ly about their race(see the bazillion threads containing discussions pertaining to the RP surrounding grey orcs) players get hurt feelings and drama ensues. Simply put, the vast majority of players aren't able to handle IC bigotry, and thus we've(sadly) come to accept the status-quo of OOC player consideration being more important than staying true to the IC lore.

Anyways... back to wings.