"Good"-aligned areas, where do the evil go?

[Darradarljod]

Sorry if someone has already suggest this. I haven't read all the pages. But what do you think of having NPC of varieties such as commoners, nobles, paladins, merchants, priests, sometimes generated and patrolling through existing and appropriate roads or areas. These are non hostile but can be attacked, and do not affect factions at large (as making city NPCs hostile).

[BigJ]

I just want to highlight one point, this is a PG13 server. Whilst there is a lot of violence here obviously, its mostly (not all) monster bashing within the fantasy adventure genre with cooperative role-play and fun. However we do have a moral obligation as a PG13 server to be aware of boundaries and having a 'good area' of folk to slaughter is mighty close to that boundary.

If BGSTCC were a PG15 or above I wouldn't be as bothered by it, but as someone who works with kids I would be bothered if we advocated this kind of action to minors by providing an area specifically for it, and I say this as a drow player . Hells, even Skyrim is a PG15.

Also, the best thing about playing evil is the consequences, what is the point of being bad without the risk?

BigJ

[NeOmega]

Sorry if someone has already suggest this. I haven't read all the pages. But what do you think of having NPC of varieties such as commoners, nobles, paladins, merchants, priests, sometimes generated and patrolling through existing and appropriate roads or areas. These are non hostile but can be attacked, and do not affect factions at large (as making city NPCs hostile).

im gonna go ahead and necro this discussion.
a few yeas ago, people comlained about some of the more useless areas. there was a snowy area between the goblin ruins and beregost.

i really think there does need to be some good areas to attack for evils. so why not make areas where npcs can be set to hotile? have a transition point that says "to fort goody-goody". you transition, and its a map a cross road, one to beregost, and one to fort goody goody. this map has quite a few caravaners, and holy guardians of waukeen or whatever, no monsters, (to avoid the problem of no factions in nwn2). this is where you can toggle all to hostile.

i know ineractable pcs can respawn, because one did a boarskyre bridge back in the day. so you could just have an interaction, you can ask questions about what is in the caravan, make small talk, or let him know you intend to rob him, (if your alignment isnt evil or chaotic neutral, the option would not even appear). most chaacters, and even players wouldnt know that if you are evil there is an option to kill and take everything. when you kill him, you get the key in your inventory to get into fort goody-goody... ..maybe even a feat that allows you into other forts/outposts/caravan camps, etc. the feat

people who dont kill the caravan guard/ captain will go to fort goody goody and maybe see some soldiers on the ramparts. people who kill the captain and his crew will go inside to fight the battalion in fort goody-goody.

-or-

fort goody goody can have a large double door. guard says no-one allowed inside, strict security.

same with a fist outpost or anything else. guard outside says no-one allowed in. thems the rules. you can kill him, or say ok, or sneak past and fight the garrison inside (a dungeon, with unlimited spawns and a few chests). not all soldiers would be good, so smite good and align weapon would not work against all of them, but some of them. maybe even have a cook or supply guy spawn every now and then.

[aaron22]

dynamic CR can make even a single map very versatile. it also can promote evil rp among differing groups.

[V'rass]

Using (suffer the children) as an argument is futile, there are no young children playing on this server. The lowest age i have found on this server is 18, and most everyone else is well into their 30s, 40s, and 50s... hell i have met a few who are over 70 for gods sake. You will need to find another argument, yours is invalid.

Besides... most young kids are either playing Warcraft or Runescape.

[RaiderOne]

Using (suffer the children) as an argument is futile, there are no young children playing on this server. The lowest age i have found on this server is 18, and most everyone else is well into their 30s, 40s, and 50s... hell i have met a few who are over 70 for gods sake. You will need to find another argument, yours is invalid.

Besides... most young kids are either playing Warcraft or Runescape.

If this is true and considering the games age would the PG13 certificate be worth revising?

[Endelyon]

Using (suffer the children) as an argument is futile, there are no young children playing on this server. The lowest age i have found on this server is 18, and most everyone else is well into their 30s, 40s, and 50s... hell i have met a few who are over 70 for gods sake. You will need to find another argument, yours is invalid.

Besides... most young kids are either playing Warcraft or Runescape.

We definitely have minors on this server.

[aaron22]

pg 13 and the slaying of good are not connected unless someone is assuming this means the evil will be openly eating babies or something. i would think that an obvious no-go. but as we are right now, we have human "bandits" that are absolutely killed and i have seen many that kill them without losing a step on their journey (between FAI-BG). so killing human women is ok by the standards already in place.

small human villages are not actively protected in lore. they are more reactive then proactive in the wake of destruction of small communities.

next half-arsed reason to not have this?

[NeOmega]

A good way to test the theories would be an area of good aligned people in the underdark. even in the underdark, your only options are killing evil, still nowhere to use smite good, or protection from good, etc...

[Xanfyrst]

You will be surprised what stuff you can get away with with a PG13 rating. Decapitation of a head and then hold it up for all to see? No problem, just don't describe any gory details.

With the exception of Deadpool, all superhero movies are PG13 IIRC. Lord of the Rings too. World War Z, Taken, Jaws, Drag me to Hell are all PG13.

You have a lot of flexibility within the rating. It's not a Disney-rating.

[Hoihe]

You will be surprised what stuff you can get away with with a PG13 rating. Decapitation of a head and then hold it up for all to see? No problem, just don't describe any gory details.

With the exception of Deadpool, all superhero movies are PG13 IIRC. Lord of the Rings too. World War Z, Taken, Jaws, Drag me to Hell are all PG13.

You have a lot of flexibility within the rating. It's not a Disney-rating.

Also depends on which country you ask for ratings.

(Hint: Ask Sweden for them)

[RaiderOne]

I think the problem with this thread is that the original post assumes that evil alignment needs to fight good alignment.

This was not written by me, but I have found it the best way to view your alignment. Way better than the pigeon hole the 9-point alignment star puts you in.

Good vs. Evil

Are you willing to suffer harm or make sacrifices to benefit others? If so, you’re good.
Are youu willing to harm others for your own benefit? If so, you’re evil.
Otherwise, you’re neutral with respect to good and evil.

Lawful vs. Chaos
Do you think individuals should be expected to give up freedoms for the benefit of society as a whole? If so, you’re lawful.
Do you think you are better off retaining your individual freedoms by living outside of society? If so, you’re chaotic.
Otherwise, you’re neutral with respect to law and chaos.

I can understand the want to use abilities such as smite good, and IMO all smites should follow the same rules and not be bound to alignments.

[NeOmega]

another option could be An Amnian outpost or fortress. Inside would be Amnian soldiers with varying alignments. in the same general area could be a flaming fist outpost.

go to the flaming fist outpost, talk to the commander, (or maybe an agent, to keep it from being an official raid), he gives you information on the secret entrance to the amnian fortress. this gives you a key to an area on the outer amnian fortress which is guarded by hostile amnian guards, (away from the amnian commander), once killed, you go into the fortress and do as you please.

and visa versa for the amnian outpost.

it would all be wink and nod skirmish type stuff, and the commanders would deny ever meeting you...

something like that. perhaps a quest item (feat probably mechanically simpler, but i am wary of the current feat bloatware every new character comes with now...) that:
a: disallows opening quest dialogue with the opposite, (cant do both at once, because reasons).
b: can not be dropped, only turned in.
c: spawns hostile in the outer court of the place you are to infiltrate.

maybe inside can be a killable merchant, who only respawns at reset if killed.

seems to me one of the biggest reasons there is nowhere for evil to use their smite feats is because almost all enemies are monsters. the only humans/dwarves/elves are bandits, which will tend to be chaotic or evil, (i dont even know if some bandits who are good).

in an elven/human/dwarven army camp or outpost/castle/fortress, you might find more good aligned enemies, perhaps even some paladins and clerics.

and i dont think it would be a bad thing, if periodically dwarves got together to guard the dwarven fortress, and pvp people trying to enter. it is really too bad there is no functional faction system, but there are surely workarounds.

can a map be told not to spawn enemies unless something happens first? basically areas that dont spawn hostiles until you kill the guard, or open a chest, or unlock a door, and stops spawning once you leave the map, then re-spans the guards and locks?

i mean, i never did it, but i had friends back in the day that loved games that allowed you to kill or steal anything.. ...it made the world feel more real/open.

i remember when the amnian guards first appeared at beregost, i came in at the tail end of a fight between a pc and a guard. he was killed pretty easily. said, " i had to try, Lol" via tell, but really, i understand the sentiment when playing more evil characters.

[NeOmega]

another interesting angle may be guild halls can have a series of guards and chambers inside. maybe even a token that makes them invisible/etherial to their npc guild guards, etc, so they will be ignored if there is a battle in the guild hall. "enemies" will spawn, but ignore guild members, therefore only targetting the intruders... ..a defacto faction system.

guilds could even sink gold into upgrading their guards, etc...

this would be a lot more fun than custom merchants or furniture, imho.

just brainstorming...

[NeOmega]

The biggest issue I see is, I think close to or maybe exactly what Thids' concern is... Someone uses this new area to RP that they slaughtered a town/monastery/goodly aligned temple/whatever...They post on the forums, rumors abound, goodly folks then set up camp outside said area and on sight pvp anyone attempting to enter. Conversely, if it is just an OOC grind spot with no IC Consequences for getting your evil on, then what's the point in slaying those goodly aligned spawns vs. other spawns? If it is all OOC grinding then it matters little what you're grinding against. Whereas with good you would never strike down an innocent/goodly humanoid except perhaps in times of war where you are forced to fight against others that may very well be Neutral/Good aligned. Regardless, evil has no such difficulties as their alignment doesn't simply mean 'against the good guys' and they will kill good/evil/neutral creatures if they feel like it.

i see this as a good thing, not a problem.
i think, realistically, deep down people want and envision more pvp than they get, so anything that encourages pvp away from the fai is a good thing.

also, i have lots of chars that dont needlessly slaughter animals or grind animals. maybe have these areas be open to pvp KoS if cuaght killing one of the guards or cooks or whatever.