Raising the Dead

[ValerieJean]

I wouldn't think it is too hard as that's just different styles of RP, doesn't make either wrong in my opinion. Can always base it on a CON check as it is in normal DnD and maybe just say she didnt roll too well with hers and she's feeling more worse off than tony was. Doesn't make it wrong just a different kind of character.

(Not implying rolls have to be made after each one just an example of why it could be different for one)

[dedude]

I acknowledge that there is an obvious room to RP this in different ways. But going off the strictly mechanical aspects, a raise dead leaves you alive but only barely, you need healing or time to recover and you probably feel like rothé dung, makes sense. A resurrect leaves you at full health and physically as fit as can be.

This server has no additional death penalties, like e.g. reduced stats or health for a duration after a death. We could implement something like that, but currently there are no lasting effects, not mechanical nor in the rules. Being raised by Myrkul is actually much worse as he strips a part of you by taking xp.

I still think it's fine to RP a headache or feeling tired, or loosing the will to go into battle, etc. But the actual physical effects of the death/raise is right there, clear for all to see and base their RP off.

[metaquad4]

That is why I suggested negative levels in my initial post. Negative levels which last 24 hours are temporary. They last until a restoration or until the character rests. And, because play your character sheet is a rule, people will have to RP those consequences upon death.

[chad878262]

any time something like this is brought up I would always advise a measured approach. Probably not the best idea to remove scrolls from loot tables and shops, increase cost of temple rez, apply casting or component cost to the spell, take the spell off of FS spell list, etc. etc...

Measured approach as in start by removing the scrolls from loot tables, wait a few months for them to be out of circulation and stores to dwindle and see what the impact is. Anyone complaining, or loving it? Then take another step based on the new information as to the impact from step 1. This way it allows the player base to adapt over time rather than having reactions we saw in 2016 when the sword coast was turned on it's head with so much new stuff that some of it is still undocumented and not everyone can agree on how it works.

[ValerieJean]

Agreed, taking it slow to see how things go with the playerbase imo is usually a good thing.

[Velaris]

I like the idea of a measured approach as well.
1. ...removing the scrolls and items from vendors and loot tables; give the power of the gods back into those who serve them.
**See how that works out then proceed to step 2 or 3

2. I also think raise dead and resurrect scrolls should either be made un-scribable, or the cost of scribing them be made close to or equivalent to taking them to the temple.
(I don't like the idea of clerics turning into merchants, selling divinity on paper btw - which god answers letter mail anyway? it seems immoral to hand out your god's personal number to random adventurers, or especially to sell it to them.

3. Temple cost for resurrection could be scaled to your level instead of a set fee, the same way the xp loss is scaled in Myrkul's realm ie 100gp / level

As for the smelling salts idea, although the rp concept has merit, there are so many gaping holes in it that can't be patched up, even with more smelling salts.
I really think the level drain rez effects idea has merit, and having a restoration necessary, (not the player taking a knee) being the only way to return the player to their former glory. They can of course visit a temple to have the service done, but I really do feel that pc death here is taken very lightly.
** I should note and apologize to the exception of certain players that rp their toons having severe psychological trauma to work through after a resurrection is done on them, my hat is off to you. I also rp my cleric experiencing trauma after performing a resurrection, lastest example having to take a week off casting or serious adventuring to recover from a resurrection based event.

Point is, it's a big thing, dying and coming back. Why can't we give it some significance here? Smelling salts sounds like an item similar to the stabilize spell, but not raise dead.

[Tsidkenu]

As far as I'm concerned, if my character has reached -10 HP then they are dead unless the DM tells me otherwise or they receive a fully costed 5,000gp Raise Dead or 10,000gp Resurrection. That's my own standard, though; I wouldn't hold anyone else to it.

I also enjoy the challenge of playing permadeath characters, evidenced most recently when my hin sniper got poleaxed by 4 lifeforce-sensing, HIPS ignoring Wraith Spiders down in Durlags. That was her first, and only, death and I was not willing to let her get raised by a 'mere' scroll. RIP Acorn.

[kellendril]

I love the idea of the 24 hour debuff since it matches the server rule as currently written. It would solve so many issues of "hey I was just dead but now I'm not and I remember everything that just happened so lets fight...again.."

[Aeb Ankor]

Smelling Salts are in the DM items available already named such and with a white potion bottle, these cast raise dead. Or were in the past.

Years and Years ago, I commonly saw these in multiple DM events as ground drops/ hand outs to prep or recover from event battles. I still have a single one sitting on a character...

I also still have 2 Resurrection Rods with a few charges each the old ones that had no required class, no UMD needed. I consider IC death recovery important RP and my characters don't throw out free raises often...
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A different tangent

Another option would be to remove the fugue...

What I propose is that when a character bleeds out or is killed... they just lay there in dead limbo. Set their HP to -5000, -10000, -1000000 or such and the character if rescued can be raised, smelling salted or resurrected, hauled to a priest. It may even be considered to let them heal 1 HP a tick or such... then if left long enough eventually the gods have seen to pity their plight and *poof* 1 HP alive again (at risk of hostile NPC attack again).

Fugue zones removal then means that once the server resets all XP loss is handled on log in with the same gods that tell us now "you have unfinished business..."

Less zoning, less zones, less dialog, less unknown time in fugue that your character will never remember anyway(trade off is they get OOC view of events near the corpse).

[Face]

Put in smelling Salts and have them only work with in the first 5 min after death , After that you would need to get a priest or bring the corps to a temple?

[chad878262]

*snip*
Another option would be to remove the fugue...

What I propose is that when a character bleeds out or is killed... they just lay there in dead limbo. Set their HP to -5000, -10000, -1000000 or such and the character if rescued can be raised, smelling salted or resurrected, hauled to a priest. It may even be considered to let them heal 1 HP a tick or such... then if left long enough eventually the gods have seen to pity their plight and *poof* 1 HP alive again (at risk of hostile NPC attack again).

Fugue zones removal then means that once the server resets all XP loss is handled on log in with the same gods that tell us now "you have unfinished business..."

Less zoning, less zones, less dialog, less unknown time in fugue that your character will never remember anyway(trade off is they get OOC view of events near the corpse).

I actually really like this idea.. I would make the -X HP based on level which would allow us to also get rid of corpses since the character would just lay there instead of going to fugue. The only issue I see is how you might take a downed adventurer to a temple, especially at low levels when you don't have any capability of raise dead, even as a cleric. I would propose starting with something like once you hit -10 HP you are dead and HP are set to negative (level)*300. This equates to 5 minutes / level or 2 1/2 hours at level 30 if you have 1 regen/round. If possible, it would be better to actually set the regen at 1/round so that low levels will still eventually not be dead and those with regen of 6/round don't come back 6 times faster, negating the penalty. The options would look like this:

1. Someone comes along and raises you, normal raise/resurrection functionality (though I agree it would be nice if you had -10/5 levels drained for 24 hrs or until a restoration / greater restoration is cast)
2. You wait out your time, 5 min @ 1st level, 50 min @ 10th level, 2 1/2 hrs. at level 30. (could be adjusted up or down as necessary, selected this as with current server reset it would be about 1/2 the server time for a max level character if no crash)
3. Allow character to respawn at either home location or the standard hubs either in UD or surface with existing penalties of 100 XP / level being lost. (I would also recommend for level 30 characters to impose a penalty of gold instead of XP so that there is a penalty for taking this option as a max level character. Make the penalty 10,000 gold and if the PC doesn't have 10,000 gold then just set gold to zero).
4. If server resets before the timer expires or the player is otherwise raised then when the PC talks to Mystra/Shaundakul they will be assessed the penalty of XP or gold dependent upon level.

This in my opinion is both more forgiving in that you will eventually respawn without loss of XP, especially at lower levels(depending upon when the server resets and how long you have to wait based on level) and also imposes an actual penalty to level 30's who are killed. The fact that it would also allow for removal for the OOC fugue plain is gravy, plus in events as a player you get to continue watching the action if your characters bites it. Really great idea Aeb Ankor! +1

[aaron22]

in regards to chad and aeb's post, what happens if the character just logs instead of wanting to wait. will there be a bugged corpse on the ground? this will happen way more than than not in my opinion.

will there be the ability to send tells while in dead form? this would be somewhat necessary as sometimes a DM may need to be alerted to something that may have gone awry. but this would be abused to metagame, "hey i just died soloing the frost giant. come get me." but then again it is not like this is not happening now. just from the fugue.

then how will this appear to a new player? someone who is not only new to the server, but new to the game. this may make it very hard for them. may even cause a new player to stop playing if they are continuously killed by the same mob of zombies as they shamble around slowly on top of your corpse.

im not trying to be a naysayer. maybe a devil's advocate trying to see other factors to these proposals.

[Flights of Fantasy]

I've suggested this before on other servers way back when, so let's see how it holds up here. How about instead of getting rid of the OOC fugue, we make it an IC location. I've forgotten most of what I've known about D&D and FR lore, but I recall the Fugue almost being like the nexus of the afterlife. Souls are judged by Myrkul (Kelvemor in time) and then go to whatever realm their patron deity has prepared for them. Or they can bargain with devils for power in return for service in the Blood War or something like that. I'm assuming demons still raid the wall of the faithless to rip out souls for their uses.

So while we make death have more meaning, why don't we add more to it to make the experience of dying another part of the adventure? Make it so when players die and have to wait to be restored, they could go on adventures in the afterlife. Of course, there wouldn't be any way possible to make enough areas for all the heavens/hells that exist in lore, so create areas that represent the three main moral alignments: Good, Neutral, and Evil. (Could also add in Law and Chaos for the PCs that are closer to those alignments, but I wouldn't suggest bothering with them until seeing how the idea works out.) And the Fugue will serve as the connecting point between all three. It would kind of be like having a second Underdark, except everyone has to go there if they die. Players that have been perma-killed could also still RP in this place. They just have no chance of ever returning to the living realm.

The question is how to handle character files. While characters that die can be whatever level they were at death, it would be strange for a dead person to come back to life and be stronger than they were when they died. I imagine it would be possible to make a script that records a PC's total experience upon entering the Fugue. Then when they're raised, if they have earned any XP while dead, it's automatically deducted and they delevel back to where they were. Inventory is another matter. I don't think anyone should be able to carry any of their mortal weapons to the fugue or fugue weapons back to the mortal realm. I'm not sure how that could be handled.

Anyway, that's my idea. It first popped into my head years ago when I played, and I remember it just now while reading through this topic.

[chad878262]

at happens if the character just logs instead of wanting to wait. will there be a bugged corpse on the ground?

So, if the character doesn't go to fugue my assumption would be when s/he logs back in the PC will appear where they were when s/he logged out, still dead. If the server resets than that was explained in the previous post. As I explained, there would need to be some solution to corpse creation and temple raising since the toon does not get ported to fugue and instead stays where they fell.

will there be the ability to send tells while in dead form? this would be somewhat necessary as sometimes a DM may need to be alerted to something that may have gone awry. but this would be abused to metagame, "hey i just died soloing the frost giant. come get me." but then again it is not like this is not happening now. just from the fugue.

As you stated, this already occurs and I do not think it is a big issue. not that it should happen, as it is against the rules and can result in penalties, but a new system certainly doesn't make the issue any worse... If anything it at least let's players know without tells if a player is still online when they find a body on their adventures... It is frustrating to find a corpse and have to look at the scry to see if the player logged off to avoid wasting a rez.

then how will this appear to a new player? someone who is not only new to the server, but new to the game. this may make it very hard for them. may even cause a new player to stop playing if they are continuously killed by the same mob of zombies as they shamble around slowly on top of your corpse.

I don't understand this so maybe you could elaborate. The reason I liked Aeb's idea was because it is more friendly to new players. Currently you die, you eat your penalty and respawn... Under the new system you die, you can chose to eat the penalty and respawn someplace safe or take the chance that someone will come along or that when you recover after your 5+ minutes the enemies will be elsewhere and you will perhaps have enough time to run/hide/heal/teleport or whatever. The current system is brutal when you are new to the server, especially as you climb nearer to 20+ and you still don't really know the server. Every area is still new to you as you gain levels and explore further out and most people die a LOT (I sure did!) This system would allow for a bit more flexibility as to what you want your penalty to be (time/chance of someone coming along or XP). In addition, for players like Tsidkenu who prefer not to have resurrection treated as a simple mechanical exercise in reading a scroll can see the potential saviors coming and OOC'ly voice concerns so that, if the other player is not a Cleric, does not have a diamond, etc. they can chose to either take the dead PC to a priest or leave them where they lie. When you are in the fugue your only possible way of knowing if anyone might happen upon your dead PC is to monitor the scry, but even that can't tell you if the other player(s) have found your corpse or not, just that they are on the map where you died.

In any case, your points have merit, I don't consider it being a naysayer more just making sure something doesn't get implemented worse than what we have. I think this would be better and have posted in QC for discussion there as well. I don't think there is any more potential for exploitation or issues than what we have currently, but I may have not thought of something, such as how to handle corpses... Anyway it is really just a thought right now, we'll see if it has merit enough to progress.

[aaron22]

Hidden: show

I've suggested this before on other servers way back when, so let's see how it holds up here. How about instead of getting rid of the OOC fugue, we make it an IC location. I've forgotten most of what I've known about D&D and FR lore, but I recall the Fugue almost being like the nexus of the afterlife. Souls are judged by Myrkul (Kelvemor in time) and then go to whatever realm their patron deity has prepared for them. Or they can bargain with devils for power in return for service in the Blood War or something like that. I'm assuming demons still raid the wall of the faithless to rip out souls for their uses.

So while we make death have more meaning, why don't we add more to it to make the experience of dying another part of the adventure? Make it so when players die and have to wait to be restored, they could go on adventures in the afterlife. Of course, there wouldn't be any way possible to make enough areas for all the heavens/hells that exist in lore, so create areas that represent the three main moral alignments: Good, Neutral, and Evil. (Could also add in Law and Chaos for the PCs that are closer to those alignments, but I wouldn't suggest bothering with them until seeing how the idea works out.) And the Fugue will serve as the connecting point between all three. It would kind of be like having a second Underdark, except everyone has to go there if they die. Players that have been perma-killed could also still RP in this place. They just have no chance of ever returning to the living realm.

The question is how to handle character files. While characters that die can be whatever level they were at death, it would be strange for a dead person to come back to life and be stronger than they were when they died. I imagine it would be possible to make a script that records a PC's total experience upon entering the Fugue. Then when they're raised, if they have earned any XP while dead, it's automatically deducted and they delevel back to where they were. Inventory is another matter. I don't think anyone should be able to carry any of their mortal weapons to the fugue or fugue weapons back to the mortal realm. I'm not sure how that could be handled.

Anyway, that's my idea. It first popped into my head years ago when I played, and I remember it just now while reading through this topic.

well that would be fairly epic in scope for sure. somewhat confusing to role play. and most likely near-impossible to implement. but awesome no doubt.

to remedy the xp and equipment idea. you could just have the PC's be level 10 spirits with the PC's name. they have no gear. all gear is left with the corpse on the ground. you move to your alignment quest giver. you would have to complete a series of difficult quests and failure is start over. if you complete it then you can go back to the living world with a normal death penalty. if you don't you must wait until reset or wait to be raised. like you said if you Perma, you can request that your spawn be placed only there so you can RP in spirit form and all your ingame gear would be lost to the realms. that seems cool, but also a huge undertaking. but whatever. i never put anything past the creativity and expertise of the ones that make this whole thing work.