Divine Power

[Kiran]

My level 29 EDM FVS soloed the balor before I RCR'd him.

Took AAAAAGES, but was very doable.

[ginsu]

I read, read, read and read...

All it seems to me is that ppl are asking for excuses to make bosses have their difficults lowered, so they can take advantage of it with his own builds, off course, builds that are not even mentioned here.

Im a big fan of the idea that bosses shouldn't be for ppl to solo it.

So... Here is my suggestion. Instead of nerf this, nerf that, what seems a solution to me is to make all the bosses really really really really hard, so only people in groups (very organized groups) would be able to take them down and even with a few casualties.

I don't imagine, even in a fantasy world someone waking up and thinking: "humm... what will I do today... ok, I will solo a dragon, then a balor, the frost king... ohhh then I will rest"

[7threalm]

just double up or tripple up bosses lol, thats an easy fix

I know a fvs could prolly take 1 balor, 2 their spells will be spent.

or you could make it even worse and have a new spawn after the first one is defeated

[Valefort]

The problem of that approach is that people will powerbuild first and team second, lower the difficulty and make these PB feel useless.

[V'rass]

*Sighs* All this talk of nerfs, restrictions, how certain classes are better then others, and the need for equality are quite amusing. Guess what... there is no such thing as equality, some classes and builds will be strong and some will be weak, thats just how it is. Those builds and classes who are strong deserve to dominate while those that are weak need to accept their weakness and stop whining about how its not fair. Let those who have the skill and power do their thing and let those who dont try to find a niche in the power structure or play a class that is not weak. Darwinism... its how the universe works. As a great man once said "Trying to make everyone equal only makes everyone equally mediocre".

[Rasael]

Those builds and classes who are strong deserve to dominate while those that are weak need to accept their weakness and stop whining about how its not fair.

Darwinism often isn't about strength or adaptability.

In social species the key characteristic for continued survival (and prosperity) is whether or not (or how well) you cooperate with the group. Individuals who'm opt not to cooperate are often confronted with an alliance of other members who do choose to cooperate with each other. Leading to ostracism. Therefore its very important to be sociable: to cooperate and to conform to the priorities of the group.

Of course we're talking about the Animal Kingdom. There are no such studies concerning human societies. But its very easy to draw a parallel to humans if we see democratic governments as 'alliances of cooperating individuals'. But in most western countries you won't be left to starve to death if you refuse to cooperate.

None of this applies to NWN2. But its an interesting read.
I'd say that equality has never been the name of the game. Its all about being able to pitch in and cooperate with a party of other players.

[V'rass]

True... and i have nothing against social cooperation but too many people care only about mechanical power and seem to think its the be all and end all.

I played on a server where you pretty much had to powerbuild to survive. However i never got good at it and my main character was drastically weaker then most of the others. Instead of complaining about it or demanding that others be brought down in power to parity with me i made do with what i had and did the best i could with what i did have. My character could do a decent job but would be outclassed most of the time. Instead of letting that stop me i went ahead with my grinding and rp and made a very decent reputation for myself despite my mechanical weakness.

I identified my main weaknesses and took steps to cover them. I knew which situations i could handle and which i could not and played accordingly. Not once did i ever complain about this or ask that others be brought down just so i could feel empowered. I did what i could and i survived and had fun. Too many people on this server are obsessed with power and having the most badass character on the server. Demanding that others be punished because i cant handle being second best is in my opinion a very rude and nasty thing to do to other players.

[AC81]

No responses to my only comment on this thread - how many divine spells are breachable? Make spell breaches work against ALL spells and you will go a long way towards curbing many strengths of the divine spellbook.

[Calodan]

Okay now that I am no longer pissed off and not thinking straight I will say this:

When the thread starts to go on and people really share what they think the issue is with some spell or PRC it boils down to one thing in the minds of the ones who are wanting to nerf said spell or PRC. THE SPELL OR PRC ALLOWS THAT PERSON TO DO THINGS I DO NOT BELIEVE SHOULD HAPPEN........ Really? It comes down to they do not like the RP of that class. They do not believe that kind of power should exist in a FANTASY REALM. (Yeah that is right they want to shut down another persons fantasy RP). Think about that for a second. Really put in your head and roll it around. Maybe that is why I as a player of said OP class have such a hard time keeping my cool because in the end it is always an attack of the style RP and class itself. This is the damned saddest thing I have ever seen and I have seen children die in front of me. When humans set out to limit fantasy RP of others like this by nerfing some mechanic that allows them to realize their RP fantasy and or style of character that is indeed a foul thing and a travesty because it literally discounting that human being who enjoys it. Believe it or not there are a portion of us who play these classes not to overpower others but to realize fantasies we may not be able to in real life for one reason or another and or that is fun to us. Did anyone ever stop to think that I like the fantasy of killing a dragon single handedly and balor afterwards? That for me that is what a magical realm of fantasy allows one to do since it is after all IMAGINATION. Why for the love of the universe, God or gods would anyone want to limit other humans in their imaginations? It is just sad because in the end it is about one thing that someone does not agree that the RP of that is proper and that the mechanic allows them to do inconceivable things in a fantasy realm.......Shaking my head at this point because that is ultimately what these threads look like in the end. I get so angry at it because there is no rhyme or reason for this except to force another person to see and do things your way, which in the end is no way to build relationships and friends at all.

I am sorry for things I say when I am angry as most people are and I get a little protective in the end because it always boils down to that one thing and thus I lose my cool. I can see where these people are angry and I accept that. What I do not accept is the need to stop my style of RP by limiting me in such a way that forces me to RP your way. I do not meta game. I do not cheat. I use the spells and mechanics exactly the way they are meant to be used and still my RP is scene as unacceptable because of power. My character is ignored often because of this as well. Not by DMs or staff. By players. Of course there is the small chance that my forum attitude precedes me at this point and since the RP community is quite small despite the large server population there is that....Anyway the point is. Please stop nerfing divines any more. I like their power and RP. If anything a few things could be done to help other classes rather than always picking on a certain class RP. No one is crying about STR EDM Bards yet but soon as FvS' are out of the way they are next I promise you.

[V'rass]

Amen to that Calodan... amen.

[Juramenta]

Did anyone ever stop to think that I like the fantasy of killing a dragon single handedly and balor afterwards? That for me that is what a magical realm of fantasy allows one to do since it is after all IMAGINATION.

I agree completely. We are in a world with epic lvl characters, not mere beginner adventurers.
The sword coast is a nexus filled with people who wield power closer to a god than a mere mortal.
They keep each other in check, simply because they would probably be considered a god if it were alone in the world. Yet the presence of the other epic individuals they are forced to restrain themselves to a certain extend.
We have people who can raise the dead, simply because they choose to grant you life.
Nothing wrong with acknowledging that some of them truly are powerful enough to face a Balor head on all by themselves.

It is fun!

[Valefort]

No responses to my only comment on this thread - how many divine spells are breachable? Make spell breaches work against ALL spells and you will go a long way towards curbing many strengths of the divine spellbook.

Death ward is on the breach list, I messed up the breach code last time though but next update .. yep.

[AC81]

Did anyone ever stop to think that I like the fantasy of killing a dragon single handedly and balor afterwards? That for me that is what a magical realm of fantasy allows one to do since it is after all IMAGINATION.

Fair call ... only problem is this: your world of imagination is shared by MANY others. So rules/restrictions must be applied, like it or not.

In regards to Divine Power - would a FvS/Cleric become unplayable if Divine Power was changed to CL/3 rounds duration? I think what my fighter can achieve with a measly 10 round duration buff like haste and it's considerable. I figure 20 round (extended) Divine Powers are more than acceptable. This is a lowish level spell (that can be as low as level 3) that completely dictates how divines build their PC's. There is no need for consideration of high BAB classes (like an arcane gish) because this spell effectively makes them AT LEAST equivalent to a 30 fighter. Add in other buffs/class dips and you have a monster. They also do not have the same problems as arcane casters in that most of their spells are not breachable - so they are very safe if they have a high CL (which they will because they don't need to dip for high BAB classes just so they can hit things!). Hopefully the breachable spells issue will be solved very soon - then divines will also fear Mords, Breaches and those awesome breach traps!

[AC81]

No responses to my only comment on this thread - how many divine spells are breachable? Make spell breaches work against ALL spells and you will go a long way towards curbing many strengths of the divine spellbook.

Death ward is on the breach list, I messed up the breach code last time though but next update .. yep.

What does this mean Vale? That ALL spells will be able to be breached? If so, that is fantastic.

[Valefort]

That would be a pretty major change, but no the breach change (which happened several updates ago and is documented) is the following : randomized, death ward added to breach list.