New summon changes

[Glowfire]

There's also not time enough to buff up these summons, which may be taken into consideration.

Thats why they are two levels higher then other summons of the same level.

I hadn't compared it, TY. I think it would be enough really to maybe make it so there's more than 1 summoned. They're capped at 20 rounds (does extend work on these... haven't tried).

[Pimple]

I do believe it does. Actually, it just does.

[izzul]

here i added another one for Epic Gate:Angel(please correct me if some of the stats are wrong)

1) The Quality Control didnt allow more then 20 HD(BAB) for epic gate.

2)

though i do hope you also look at the 20HD
-gate spell-20HD
-epic gate spell- 20HD

if gate, and epic gate spell have almost the same summon,HP, and stats...

They dont.

Code: Select all

Angel (Gate)	       Planetar (Gate)		Solar (Epic Gate)         Angel(Epic gate
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
20 Cleric		       20 Outsider			20 Outsider                25 Cleric
15 BAB (3 Attacks)	 20 BAB (4 Attacks)  20 BAB (4 Attacks)         25BAB(4 attacks 
28 STR			       26 STR				  32 STR                     35STR
12/6/12			      12/12/12			   12/12/12                   17/15/17
220 HP			       180 HP				  180 HP                     280HP
30 AC                    29 AC                35 AC                     36 AC
0 Regen			      5 Regen				 5 Regen                    no regen
0 SR			         30 SR				   32 SR                      32SR
1 Immunity 		     2 Immunities		  2 Immunities               1 immunities
5 DR/+1			      10 DR/Evil			 15 DR/ Evil                10DR/+1
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sword +2, +1d6 elec   Sword +2, +1d4 elec  Sword +3, +1d4 divine     sword+2 1d6 elec
                      Sword pierces DR/good  Sword pierces DR/good   
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
		                Heal				    Heal                          Heal
			             Mass Cure			  Regeneration               Mass Cure
                      Greater Restoration Greater Restoration
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Holy Aura		       Holy Aura			  Holy Aura                  Holy Aura
                                          Righteus Might
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greater Dispel		  Greater Dispel		Invisible Purge            Greater Dispel
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Word of Faith		   Word of Faith		 Word of Faith              Word of Faith
Hammer of Gods		  Flame Strike		  Prismatic Spray            Power Word Kill
Blade Barrier         Power Word Stun	Power Word Stun              Fire Storm
                        			       Power Word Blind            Lightning storm
				          Implosion			  Storm of Vengeance
							                        Fire Storm

The 10 DR alone is more worth than 40 HP.

thank you for the comparison
can you share the previous epic gate summon for Angel(if mine above is wrong and compare it to Solar epic gate)

Angel:epic gate(not the gate) compare with Solar:epic gate

if the comparison is big difference(thus making the feat not a priority to take), i think the option to RCR is a choice i would make for now.
other than the 20HD, and the HP of 180 same as the gate, it just makes me think to remove the Epic Gate Feat for something else. save one feat for more AC or more AB might be a better option after this changes.

[Nachti]

You still can. Just with another spell - summon creature VI- IX. And now you can also use an ice elemental to do the job. Or have an shadow elemental sneak through the door.

I am a LG Sorcerer with Gate and not Summon Monster IX. All I can summon now is a ton of Angels and a familiar.

A sorcerer can learn 34 spells by level 30 so you have 33 left. I think its not okay if one can summon everything with just one spell.

But to help you, I am looking into ways that allow sorcerers to repick spells in epic levels or grant new spells.

here i added another one for Epic Gate:Angel(please correct me if some of the stats are wrong)

Code: Select all

Angel (Gate)	       Planetar (Gate)		Solar (Epic Gate)         Angel(Epic gate)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
20 Cleric		       20 Outsider			20 Outsider                20 Outsider
15 BAB (3 Attacks)	 20 BAB (4 Attacks)  20 BAB (4 Attacks)         20 BAB (4 attacks) 
28 STR			       26 STR				  32 STR                     35 STR
12/6/12		         12/12/12 		     12/12/12                   12/12/12
220 HP			       180 HP				  180 HP                     280 HP
30 AC                 29 AC               35 AC                      35 AC
0 Regen			      5 Regen				 5 Regen                    no regen
0 SR			         30 SR				   32 SR                      0 SR
1 Immunity 		     2 Immunities		  2 Immunities               1 immunities
5 DR/+1			      10 DR/Evil			 15 DR/Evil                 15 DR/Evil
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sword +2, +1d6 el     Sword +2, +1d4 el   Sword +3, +1d4 divine      Sword +2 1d4 elec
                      Sword pierces DR/g  Sword pierces DR/g  
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
		                Heal				    Heal                          
			             Mass Cure			  Regeneration             
                      Greater Restoration Greater Restoration
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Holy Aura		       Holy Aura			  Holy Aura                  
                                          Righteus Might
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greater Dispel		  Greater Dispel		Invisible Purge            Greater Dispel
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Word of Faith		   Word of Faith		 Word of Faith              Fear
Hammer of Gods		  Flame Strike		  Prismatic Spray            Wall of Fire
Blade Barrier         Power Word Stun	  Power Word Stun            Power Word Stun
                        			         Power Word Blind           Dominate Monster
				          Implosion			  Storm of Vengeance
							                     Fire Storm                 Fire Storm

And thats it from my side.

I do unterstand that some people dont like the changes. But thats how it is. Devas arent tanks or brutes - they are some sort of divine clerics... divine servants. And I plan to keep it that way.

If the QC or DM team deems that there are changes required then I will do so - but I do not listen to non-proofed opinions. Balancing is science and not based on opinions.

Though I see your concerns and good and neutral aligned summon pattern could use a few more creatures. Its something I look into after I found the augment summoning bug.

[Asmodea]

A sorcerer can learn 34 spells by level 30 so you have 33 left. I think its not okay if one can summon everything with just one spell.

I understand not wanting Gate to overlap with Monster Summon IX, my complaint is not that I can not summon the same as Monster Summon IX though since MS IX has a longer duration it never seemed a problem; I can see why it could be thought of as bad however by some. My concern is that as it stands all I can summon are Angels. It is a step backwards to the days of: Devil, Xorn, Angel. I am fine if there is plans to add in more disposable, neutral and less RP heavy summons into the mix but at current I can not tell if the plan is to give people access to Neutral Summons regardless of alignments as I can not summon any Neutral things including the Xorn which used to be available.

So far my character can not summon Devils because of PnP reasons (Which do not apply to Gate), can't summon Elementals because of mechanical reasons of them being covered by Monster Summoning IX and I am not sure why I can't summon Neutral planar things.

In short: Will I eventually be able to summon something other than an Angel again as a LG caster with Gate or is it back to the days of Angel/Xorn/Devil just with more options for each category?

[Nachti]

Will I eventually be able to summon something other than an Angel again as a LG caster with Gate or is it back to the days of Angel/Xorn/Devil just with more options for each category?

You will be able to summon celestial, arboreal and neutral creatures. The details depend on what creature I can model within the nwn2 toolset. Feel free to make suggestions.

[Planehopper]

Some of this is probably known?

====

Jann - too low of AC. Starts at 12. With Spiders and IMA it is still woefully vulnerable for even mid-range content. The Jann appears to have the same stats for either version, as well.

As one of the very few neutral (in appearance and alignment) choices, I'd love to see this one looked at quickly. Having a LN character means I have a winged angel looking cohort, or an evil summon that is quickly metagamed (everyone is a planar expert, I suppose).

Thanks for all your work! This stuff looks great and once all the wrinkles are ironed out and some more neutral choices are added in I think I will love it.

Astral Spider - causes crash on examine.

Astral Ant - causes crash on examine. I suspect they may all do this, and they have before during at least one previous summon iteration. I ran out of spells (and patience) testing these.

Astral Stag - teeeeny tiny little deer.

[Nachti]

We had inspect issues recently because a player didnt have skywings client extension. Do you have it?

[Hawke]

I have skywing, if you want some help when I get home tonight.

I can only do neutral and good summons.... unless I can get artificial alignment shifts to evil and back again.

[Hawke]

Nachti, let me re-verify, but when I used Planetar last night... I want to say it had a base 27 AB as I did not buff it.

Granted +2 ab from STR for Thaum... but that should only have it hit 24AB.

I'll double check tonight.

[Planehopper]

We had inspect issues recently because a player didnt have skywings client extension. Do you have it?

I do not use skywing's, no. I have actually never used it, will this be the driver that finally gets me there?

Does anyone else use skywings that can verify whether an examine on an astral summon causes a crash to desktop? If that's the trick, I will look into downloading it.

[dedude]

I use it and never crash on examine. Take the jump!

[Hawke]

I use it and never crash on examine. Take the jump!

I know I am going on a tangent, but Skywing also lets you put metamagic on your hotbar without threat of crash on transition. And it lets me do my ultra wide resolution too.

[Hawke]

All Greater Planar Binding

Efreeti
Level 12 Outsider
Lawful Evil
20 AB
18 AC

+2 Slashing
0 Spell Resist


Faced him off against Tasloi... and all he cast was Blazing Aura which only did like d8 damage I think and it didn't last long.


Looks cool, but wouldn't use Might have spells, but he is pretty weak physically.


Nabassu
Level 16 Outsider
Chaotic Evil
23 AB
26 AC
26 SR

4 attacks per round, Meh damage since it is all unarmed attacks. Might be made better with Beckon the Frozen to add d8 to the damage dice.

Oh wait, he has 5d6 Sneak Attack Dice.

Still meh.

Erinye
Level 12 Outsider
Lawful Evil
18 AB
23 AC
SR 20

only 3 attacks per round, mediocre damage, I guess still inline with the level 12 outsiders.

She has bow feats???? But no bow??

Nevermind, very cool she engages in ranged attack with fire damage... she does more damage with the bow than the sword. If her AB was a little higher, I think she would be a contender.


Ghaele
Level 16 Outsider
Chaotic Good
25 AB
25 AC
28 SR

4 attacks per round, decent damge. Poor HP. Has evasion and combat expertise, but no idea how to force her to use it.

Still her AC is decent and AB is pretty good too. Does around 17-23 damage per normal hit. that is with the divine and magic damage included. Does not seem to cast any spells, but has cleric domains.



Not even going to get into the Firre... Bard, but meh abilities with song and song does not last but a couple of rounds, does not cast spells and level 12 Outsider.


So with this look over of abilities... it seems that True Neutral Characters have complete access to all Planar summons. Not all Planar Summons are created equal. The common theme here is this:

-If the summons is level 16, you are good to go. If it is 12... meh.
-All Planar summons have subpar hitpoints. My level 17 wizard has more HP than the level 16 outsiders
-AB is ok with level 16 summons, but a tad more damage would be prudent. Some have extra damage, but their base damage is d4 or something similar.
-DR would be great,,, since a lot of outsiders actually come standard with DR, this would help offset the low HP.


Hope this data helps!

[Nachti]

The Ghaele has 10 DR/Evil and Cold Iron, can cast 10 spells. Almost all summons have DR and spells.