Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Lets be honest, PnP Lore wise almost no one takes a caravan. Why? It's slow. We would use Horses, or shoot even going on foot can be faster then a caravan in some places. In nwn2 horses = walking/running a map.

Lowering bandit and merc rp? no one say's you have to take the caravan. Or is it people are afraid they will not have PVP targets? Maybe that is good then.

A caravan RPly would not stop that RP, a click on this to teleport..opps "take a caravan" would do that.

There are no good arguments against a carvan system which would be completely lore based. Perhaps after we get rid of teleport people will finally understand the use of such travel. After all if so many are affraid how a caravan system would make the server feel small, lets even the ground. Get rid of teleport and see how fast people will complain.

Teleport killed a lot of -global- type RP, or the kind of RP where you stumble across something fun. It has limited RP opportunities for people outside of a group, making for more Clicks. So the last thing I would want is more teleporting in the guise of a Caravan.

This system would vastly improve the quaility of life of the majority of players and the few who would be hurt? well who are they. Could you imagine the quailty of life improvement for role play. People could now catch a group at Baldurs Gate and now travel to the Mines or Frost Keep. This system of caravans could improve party play, it could allow people to meet and greet to go as a party to certain area's of the map. like in lore!

It's not how that would work in the slightest. In the real world sure, as you are waiting on a wagon to get ready, then the many days of travel to talk... but click and go does not make that RP. The only thing close is, yes, walking for this game.
As for waiting for a group, that is the FAI, and the FAI works because of that. People wander by and start listening to a conversation, they might stumble on events, they might meet new friends and for relationships that span years when all they planed to do was pick up some milk and eggs from Bentley.

In short, give me a cheep one click option to get somewhere and I will take it almost every time. But I could not count the amount of RP I'd have missed, or opportunities lost. If I was new It might even built a more grinder mentality then RP as I'd never have to run into, or talk to people, just pop around the server.

Flasmix wrote: I can't help it if I have a slow computer. I'm not in a financial position to upgrade and get a new one, maybe once I get my tax money in I can look into getting a new one, which is what I planned on doing.

Until then, I have to live with my slow computer with it's longer than average transitions.

Unless your computer is 10 years old it's not a computer matter though, I'm certain Pimple has long area transitions at peak times.

Right now I'm on a E5440 Latitude from Dell, barely able to hit 25fps in game, and with a single platter 5400 RPM laptop platter reading the bits from. The load time for this game and module isn't too problematic. The lengthened duration comes when the game client is ready, and announcing that it is ready, but the server hasn't responded back the acknowledgement, even though your game is already hooked to your player object that was instantly moved to the next AT.

Valefort wrote:
Look at the transition times in that video, is it 2 minutes ? No, it's barely 20 seconds, sometimes 10 seconds, those transition times vary ofc but taking the maximum load time is not accurate and exaggerating the problem. Try running from High Moor to Speartop in a low population time and you'll see it's very fast.

Well not everyone has those transitions times, So everyone else should suffer because a few are blessed with 10 seconds. I could make a You Tube video put to music and it be 30 minutes of Gaga and I still not be done with the same quest to get a danm Egg.

Caravans are ofc a thing in lore but they're not instant travel ! A lone traveler using horses would be faster, and even faster by boat. Bringing in the completely silly and OOC quests (after being done for the 875th time) as an argument to make those tedious tasks shorter is a weak argument as well, the problem is the repetitiveness of the quests and the exp they give.

Hey so you want to bring IRL time constants into a fantasy game?? Im not sure your point about caravans not being instant. Im all for horses! lets bring those in! While you say the problem with quests is the repetitiveness and the xp, well they are still here. So why not make life better for those who have to suffer through them with out magic?

Nothing prevents people to gather at Baldur's Gate and then travel to Nashkel at the moment, it will take time, that's all and traveling is usually part of the story. Teleport spells also stomp on that and should probably be much harder.

Hey, im talking quality of life, which is good for everyone. this might even help non vets of the server. While nothing prevents people from doing X Y or Z on this server we shouldn't be making it needlessly hard for what? Anyone got a good reason to be against a useful tool?

really what harm would caravans do to this server?

its worth a go.

Well not everyone has those transitions times, So everyone else should suffer because a few are blessed with 10 seconds. I could make a You Tube video put to music and it be 30 minutes of Gaga and I still not be done with the same quest to get a danm Egg.

Simple, don't do the quest !

Hey so you want to bring IRL time constants into a fantasy game?? Im not sure your point about caravans not being instant. Im all for horses! lets bring those in! While you say the problem with quests is the repetitiveness and the xp, well they are still here. So why not make life better for those who have to suffer through them with out magic?

Why would you go along the problem making matters worse instead of solving it ? Teleport can be made more expensive easily enough if it's a problem of being jealous.

Hey, im talking quality of life, which is good for everyone. this might even help non vets of the server. While nothing prevents people from doing X Y or Z on this server we shouldn't be making it needlessly hard for what? Anyone got a good reason to be against a useful tool?

really what harm would caravans do to this server?

its worth a go.

I'm talking quality of life as well, where is the difficulty in traveling from BG to Nashkel for a group who will face Frost Giants ? There's none.

Caravans are terrible ! They make the server smaller, they kill a lot of impromptu RP, it kills the possibility of bandit RP, it kills tailing RP, there's no travel RP anymore either, it would also cheapen the usefulness of Teleport spells. Where are the benefits ? Gaining 2 minutes and losing plenty of RP opportunities ? It's not a useful tool it's shooting yourself in the foot repeatedly.

Valefort wrote:

Flasmix wrote: I can't help it if I have a slow computer. I'm not in a financial position to upgrade and get a new one, maybe once I get my tax money in I can look into getting a new one, which is what I planned on doing.

Until then, I have to live with my slow computer with it's longer than average transitions.

Unless your computer is 10 years old it's not a computer matter though, I'm certain Pimple has long area transitions at peak times.

Early euro hours usually see 15-30 people online, which doesn't affect transitions much. ~50 players online and it doesn't seem to matter if internet or PC is good - there will be long transition times.

I suspect a better internet connection affects game play on the server more than the 'quality' of the computer. I've always noticed that a wireless connection is much worse than a wired one (at least lag wise, noticeable difference there). So if you have wireless, try to acquire a wire and see if that makes a difference.

Maybe for caravans, we could start a new thread..? I think this thread now has three topics being discussed at once

Stonebar wrote:Lets be honest, PnP Lore wise almost no one takes a caravan. Why? It's slow. We would use Horses, or shoot even going on foot can be faster then a caravan in some places. In nwn2 horses = walking/running a map.

Lets bring horses into the game! I think it be fantastic,. I always wanted a pony! Are you really going to try and use IRL time length. and Sorry actually a lot of people in PnP lore wise take caravans. there are entire adventure mods that start with "your guarding caravan x. you come across Caravan Y and you arrived by Caravan Z" our very mod here has you arriving by caravan! Where did they all mysteriously go?

Lowering bandit and merc rp? no one say's you have to take the caravan. Or is it people are afraid they will not have PVP targets? Maybe that is good then.

A caravan RPly would not stop that RP, a click on this to teleport..opps "take a caravan" would do that.

So what?

There are no good arguments against a carvan system which would be completely lore based. Perhaps after we get rid of teleport people will finally understand the use of such travel. After all if so many are affraid how a caravan system would make the server feel small, lets even the ground. Get rid of teleport and see how fast people will complain.

Teleport killed a lot of -global- type RP, or the kind of RP where you stumble across something fun. It has limited RP opportunities for people outside of a group, making for more Clicks. So the last thing I would want is more teleporting in the guise of a Caravan.

Then strip teleport from the game, Stop doing half measures. Either everyone or no one. As for ruining group rp because you cant find a group, well that is why I want a caravan, hang out at the BG farm lands, find a group and off you go on adventurer!

This system would vastly improve the quaility of life of the majority of players and the few who would be hurt? well who are they. Could you imagine the quailty of life improvement for role play. People could now catch a group at Baldurs Gate and now travel to the Mines or Frost Keep. This system of caravans could improve party play, it could allow people to meet and greet to go as a party to certain area's of the map. like in lore!

It's not how that would work in the slightest. In the real world sure, as you are waiting on a wagon to get ready, then the many days of travel to talk... but click and go does not make that RP. The only thing close is, yes, walking for this game.
As for waiting for a group, that is the FAI, and the FAI works because of that. People wander by and start listening to a conversation, they might stumble on events, they might meet new friends and for relationships that span years when all they planed to do was pick up some milk and eggs from Bentley.

In short, give me a cheep one click option to get somewhere and I will take it almost every time. But I could not count the amount of RP I'd have missed, or opportunities lost. If I was new It might even built a more grinder mentality then RP as I'd never have to run into, or talk to people, just pop around the server.

[/quote]

Actually what i proposed would work as what is currently proposed which is nothing, is not working.

Your reason against such an idea is because you would chose to ignore rp and instant pop some where when others might not make such a choice. Look if you think you didnt need to talk to other people and form groups to play the server that is a problem but not one with caravans. that is a problem that the server is not balanced for groups and we let solo play rule. I guarantee you if you couldn't do a dungeon with out a party of 3 or 4 people you would have found friends and rp.

Considering there is still no good arguments only personal feeling against a caravan it is worth trying. the caravan system would be simple. BG to Soubar, BG to Bergorst, BG to Naskhal. Naskhal to BG. Bergorst to BG and Soubar to BG.

this is a solid system that doesn't let you pop around the map like teleport it doesn't cover all the area's and it doesn't drop you at any front doors. it simply improves quality of life.

Valefort wrote:

Well not everyone has those transitions times, So everyone else should suffer because a few are blessed with 10 seconds. I could make a You Tube video put to music and it be 30 minutes of Gaga and I still not be done with the same quest to get a danm Egg.

Simple, don't do the quest !

are you seriously going to advocate players who play at higher population times should for go the xp of a quest because we dont want to put a caravan system in?

this isnt simple its insulting.

Hey so you want to bring IRL time constants into a fantasy game?? Im not sure your point about caravans not being instant. Im all for horses! lets bring those in! While you say the problem with quests is the repetitiveness and the xp, well they are still here. So why not make life better for those who have to suffer through them with out magic?

Why would you go along the problem making matters worse instead of solving it ? Teleport can be made more expensive easily enough if it's a problem of being jealous.

Hey, im talking quality of life, which is good for everyone. this might even help non vets of the server. While nothing prevents people from doing X Y or Z on this server we shouldn't be making it needlessly hard for what? Anyone got a good reason to be against a useful tool?

really what harm would caravans do to this server?

its worth a go.

I'm talking quality of life as well, where is the difficulty in traveling from BG to Nashkel for a group who will face Frost Giants ? There's none.

Caravans are terrible ! They make the server smaller, they kill a lot of impromptu RP, it kills the possibility of bandit RP, it kills tailing RP, there's no travel RP anymore either, it would also cheapen the usefulness of Teleport spells. Where are the benefits ? Gaining 2 minutes and losing plenty of RP opportunities ? It's not a useful tool it's shooting yourself in the foot repeatedly.

[/quote]

Where is the difficulty in traveling from BG to Nashkel for a group to face the frost giants? None is right, its boring it takes time, 20 minutes later to get there for no challenge along the way is dull, why punish people who want to skip the tedious long load times? what are you gaining from this? what is the server gaining? By your words you admit, there is no challenge getting to Nashkel so why waste player time?

If you think Caravans aree terrible then get rid of teleportation to. What is good for one is good for both. The reason to get rid of teleportation is all the reasons why you stated above if they are true.

Its killing rp? no it wont, in fact my suggestion increases rp, increases group play and improves the nonsense people have to put up to run a quest for their xp. even if you where right, and someone is shooting themselves in the foot, it is their choice to make not yours or mine to make for them, they are the player.

Seriously why not try it? if I am wrong and I wont be, can pull it after a month or two.

My last post was actually supposed to be a pm *sigh*.

But hey AoS having to go from the gate to Nashkell with a large group will be tedious with all the different load times.

What really speaks against the caravan?

Lets bring horses into the game! I think it be fantastic,. I always wanted a pony! Are you really going to try and use IRL time length. and Sorry actually a lot of people in PnP lore wise take caravans. there are entire adventure mods that start with "your guarding caravan x. you come across Caravan Y and you arrived by Caravan Z" our very mod here has you arriving by caravan! Where did they all mysteriously go?

You're "guarding" the caravan, meeting the NPCs on the caravan, and new PCs to join the group, eat Cheetos and other fun that is not had by a teleport caravan. that's where the fun comes in.

If, we are to use teleport as an example then the cost of that caravan should be high, like 750 gp one way. That seems crazy high, but that is why Teleport spell is poof and your there and a caravan takes a week to get as far, the cost.

They are not going to remove teleport... but then I'm surprised about what mechanics are, so who knows.

Your reason against such an idea is because you would chose to ignore rp and instant pop some where when others might not make such a choice. Look if you think you didnt need to talk to other people and form groups to play the server that is a problem but not one with caravans. that is a problem that the server is not balanced for groups and we let solo play rule. I guarantee you if you couldn't do a dungeon with out a party of 3 or 4 people you would have found friends and rp.

Your missing the point, I love RP, but it's harder and harder to find meaningful, and above all -Random not planed- a more natural A meets B and X happens type RP. The more teleport like effects are added, the less this will happen.
For -open- RP opportunities, like most business, foot traffic is king... Interstate roads killed many small towns... the internet shopping killed many business... and insert any other random example of what is lost by an easy button.


Ok, yes your new wireless key board might get shipped directly to your house, but then your never have that RP opportunity with the stores clerk...and she might be hot! That could be your future wife!...but noooo you have to click 2nd day shipping... see youngsters... your ruining the world with your new fangled contraptions and your interwebs...

@ stone bar.


I get what your saying but I do not believe a caravan system will hurt rp but only add to it. The reason its getting harder and harder for random rp is because of the server lay out in my view. we have to many settlements and not enough adventure area's. As some know I have argued to remove half the Villages/towns/civilized area's of the server. I strongly believe this would give more changes of random rp encounters. leaving long distance over land travel to adventuring and caravans to help speed the transitions along.

I am for increasing role play and your example is a fair one but it doesnt speak to the real problem which I feel is to many civilized area's which is diluting the places to have random rp. if we shrink this pool we will increase random role play. I am for centralizing locations to achieve this as well and that is why I support and encourage a Caravan hub.

My primary goal is to increase role play.

Glowfire wrote:I've always noticed that a wireless connection is much worse than a wired one (at least lag wise, noticeable difference there). So if you have wireless, try to acquire a wire and see if that makes a difference.

Unless there's walls of conduit, brick, and steel in between, that's generally negligible since the 802.11G era, especially on 2.4GHz networks.

DM Hera wrote:I get what your saying but I do not believe a caravan system will hurt rp but only add to it. The reason its getting harder and harder for random rp is because of the server lay out in my view.

@ hera

that is a really good point. think about it in an extreme. if we had only one place (like FAI) and every place spiraled from that single central point. then RP and group gathering would be very simple.

but as we have it right now. there could be 1 player at DA, 1 player in nashkel, 1 in candlekeep, 1 at FAI, one at BG and 1 at wyverns all wanting to do the nashkel mines, but they would totally be unable to make the connections ICly. everything is so spread out. players have there own hubs and places they hang out the most.

of course there is a LFG tag on the scry. players could just use that. but that would be too simple i think. you know. use the tools we already have and all.