Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

chad878262 wrote:None of those counter grease, not to mention the spells that aren't subject to SR. Is there any basis in pnp to change them?

Simply, a Wizard is more powerful than anything else if the player is good at it, even without bigby.

Grease is no big deal at all since it is only a movement penalty.

Yes, there is a PnP reason to change bigby 7 and 9. The most important is that being in a grapple (per PnP bigby rules) is a lot less bad than being paralyzed, which is what it does in this game. In PnP you can break out of the hand by attacking it yourself using a light or natural weapon, and you can still cast stilled spells or spells without a complex somatic component with a concentration check.

Caster PC don't have access to the uber original version of the Bigbys. Only PvE casters do - and there are very few that throw Bigby 6 around, let alone Bigby 9. These mobs/bosses are then easy to plan for or avoid. I really don't see the big deal.

AC81 wrote:Caster PC don't have access to the uber original version of the Bigbys. Only PvE casters do - and there are very few that throw Bigby 6 around, let alone Bigby 9. These mobs/bosses are then easy to plan for or avoid. I really don't see the big deal.

Oh, in that case it isnt a big deal then. Sorry for the fuss. Amazing server you have here by the way. The custom content including the feats, skills, classes, spells etc are so good.

Blaze997 wrote:

chad878262 wrote:Grease slows regardless of save. Cast two in one round with Quicken, layer them on and you can render anyone stuck.

touch of idiocy can be quite beneficial for a HiPS mage to render opposition casters useless.

Enervation allows no saving throw and immediately reduces levels, thus causing issues for saves against future spells.

Cloudkill reduces CON even without saves (synergy with layered grease)

Power Word Spells, especially with custom spells specifically to buff them can be fantastic with no saves allowed.

Acid Fog, again with Greases layered can also cause significant damage...same for Wall of Fire and/or Incendiary Cloud.

Avasculate cuts HP in half with no save. Very effective when followed up with Power Word Spells.

Energy Drain - See Enervation.

This is by new means a comprehensive list, but shows there are many spells that disable, damage, or debuff without allowing saves and, in some cases are not effected by spell resistance either. Bigby is far from the most problematic of them, even if it is one of the more popular.

Good post, but I would like to point out the following:
With grease, I may be slowed but at least im not paralyzed and I can fight back with ranged or use freedom.

Enervation or energy drain are touch attacks that must pass an attack roll and a concealment check, so I have a chance even with no save. I can also counter with restoration since Im not paralyzed.

Against evasculate and power words, at least there is a window where I could heal or run away because Im not paralyzed.

Cloudkill works slowly enough to give me a chance to fight back and doesnt paralyze me, see a theme?

You can still cast spells or do ranged attacks when you are held by a bigby.

I found out that the old big crusing hand is not the like the one that in oure spell book the one that one that monster can cast is more powerfull really more powerfull it can sun us tha tis odd

Oh yeah, if an NPC mob casts a bigby... and it lands... I just log out. Why stay for the experience penalty granted upon death?

Here is an idea:

Remove bigbys 7 and 9.

Replace bigbys 7 with force cage.

As per PnP, force cage has no save and no SR check. It prevents the target from moving and cannot be destroyed by normal means. The only way to destroy it is by shooting off a successful disintegrate or mord's spell. Oh, and it also lasts 2 hours/CL.

Effectively, only a mage (or someone with high UMD for a mord's scroll) would be able to get out. Everyone else would be FUBARed.

Also. . .

--You can destroy the hand by any means. Bigbys is over.
--You can use a wand of least spell mantle, or a spell mantle spell. Bigbys can't impact you.
--You can resist by having a high amount of STR. Bigbys can't impact you or will have a significantly lessened impact on you.
--You can have high enough SR. Bigbys can't impact you.
--You can take escape artist, if its a class skill. You'll be able to better resist Bigbys.
--You can have a build that doesn't rely on movement (ranged build), or have HiPs. The mage who cast Bigbys will have trouble dealing with you still (either because you can still attack from a distance, or you can HiPs and wait them out). You can also HiPs while Bigbys is being cast to avoid it.

Granted, you might have a lower STR melee character, who doesn't have HiPs or 11 UMD and does so pitiful damage that it can't nail the hand in time. But then, you didn't learn to play. So yes, your counter will be Bigbys in that case.

Should it be possible to Dimension Door and/or Mirror Port and/or Ki Step out of a Bigby's?

Or, is Bigby's some form of inter-dimensional semi-conscious Weave glue?

I'd argue no, considering the new Skill that allows one to wriggle out of a Bigby's.