HiPs while talking

[aaron22]

i know this is sort of off the topic, but it reminded me of something i had happen. ok so me and a friend encountered a sneaker and i couldn't see him but my friend's toon could. well he froze him with PWStun and the sneaker was prone in the middle of a hallwall doing the I'm (do me)ed sway. my charcater was still unable to see him. i was thinking that after being that compromised the sneaker would no longer be hidden. I also did not see any spells that could highlight or expose a sneaker. granted he has only about 60-70 spells and i do not know every spell that is available.

so why isnt sneak disabled when you are compromised by stun/paralysis/hold etc? and is there a wiz spell that will outline a sneaker?

[Valefort]

The best is when a sneaker is turned to stone while sneaking

[chad878262]

The words over their head give you the location they were in when they spoke ...

Tell that to blind people.

Blind people should not see them regardless.

[Nyeleni]

For that matter, opening doors should give a malus as well - I would even say it should break hiding.

And I agree on talking loud enough should break it as well.

[kleomenes]

There is no reason for a mechanical 'fix' in my opinion. There are too many possibilities that script could not account for. Emotes are one example, so is whispering since I can see a scenario where you are hiding up a hill from a group of Orcs (or adventurers). You whisper and use hand signals to convey the plan to your teammates, but you remain hidden from the Orcs.

This is a really niche application of emotes when stealthed. And in fact, it is close to a godmoding without DM supervision. Who determines if the person is behind enough cover to be unseen by one set of people while seen by another? Sure behind a hill is easy to decide, but in that case the players being observed should be good sports and not RP seeing the char. But behind a bush? Behind a small tree? What size of tree?

Given how common talking and emoting from stealth is, and how its often used in taunting/pvp situations (I confess I have experienced it a lot, having played a character who was a common target of spying), it seems to me its better to have talking break stealth and then have the leap in mature play be made in these niche situations you describe rather than asking for players to determine when it is, and is not, unreasonable for talking to break stealth in the common situation

In addition, just because you hear someone speak doesn't mean you can hear their movements or see exactly where they are. The words over their head give you the location they were in when they spoke and can be acted on accordingly.

If you can hear them speak they aren't silent. How is it different to them stepping on a twig (IE rolling low on a move silently check)

It just makes no sense to be able to speak from stealth, or even whisper from stealth

[Nyeleni]

I agree kleomenes.

For that matter another odd occurrence: making a campfire doesn't break stealth but putting it out does. Go figure...

[Face]

You can also use heal kits in stealth perhaps this can be fixed aswel?

[Blackman D]

So no one wants sneaks in dm events is what you are saying

[Storm Munin]

@Valefort Someone decided to remove petrifying stare from basilik, that kind of killed that fun.

As for whispering under stealth, is it possible to add a distance modifier?
If someone not in party is close enough, stealth is broken.

That should be one fix, though not necessarily perfect.

[Valefort]

There are two kinds of basilisks, the greater ones can petrify you alright I assure you

[Mallore]

You all do know HiPS is a Super Natural ability right?

It s like better then magic in some ways.... you get to trigger Hide checks constantly...

Speaking is a sound so its an Move Silent ability, and as such when they whisper to you they have revealed they are there. But not where.. because you can be whispered at and not know if they are on the right or left of you. Considering the ventriloquism dc for such would be so negligible on these characters this is rather silly to be considering.

Yes, HiPS is supernatural, the person can be 5 feet from your face and there is nothing you can do about it but gain more spot. As long as they are with in 10 feet of a shadow, and your shadow counts! Im not sure how HiPS is messing with a characters mind... is it some spell like ability that is convincing you they are not there? Do your eyes get shut off to the possibility of their existence? Im not sure, but what I do know and is Fact, HiPS is supernatural and that is how it acts. They can scream all day at you, and your eyes can not perceive them.



Want to fix metagaming? add the spot and Listen checks to invisibility.


Anyways In the end, stealth has enough issues, lets not pick on it more.

[Sun Wukong]

Someone talking while they are 'hiding' - here is aneasy solution: throw Acid/Fire Bomb or any of those Alchemist Fires etc you've found at it.

If they are right at your face, press your Whirlwind Attack button. (You can even get Improved Whirlwind Attack to have increased Whirlwind Attack AoE.)

[Steve]

Blind people should not see them regardless.

My point was...well, I have a couple of things to say.

First, if you have ears, and are a humanoid, evolution has developed your senses in such a way that, if you cannot see something, your hearing and even sense of touch, can determine the general area a sound is made. Add onto that a trained warrior or a very skilled sense of Listen, you'd definitely be able to cleave into that area before a Stealth'd being could move away.

Second, is being in HiPS like being Ethereal, meaning, you are hidden in another dimension, and cannot be touched? No. The ability to enter in Hiding in Plain Site is supernatural, but remaining undetectable is not, hence why your normal-natural Skills of Hide and Move Silently, apply.

Third, like I mentioned but kleomenes pointed out better than I, players use HiPS in such a way to abuse the mechanics, under the ruse of role-play tactics. Sorry, I find that really bad sportsmanship, knowing you can game the mechanics, and taunt another player thus. I'd be so happy to force a mechanical limit on that behavior, because I have little faith that players will manage themselves. Sadly.

Fourth, Invisibility does not provide Hidden Sound feat, but...can you apply Listen to locate and invisible person? No, and that is bad game design. In regard to HiPS, Hide applies for location and Move Silently applies to movement detection. If a HiPS'd or stealthed person speaks, I dare say that each time the do it, a Listen check should be made, and if successful, that Steatlth'd toon should appear to the Listener. But even then, that can be abused because of the yuuuge difference in Level Power within this Sandbox. The mechanics are simply working against us, not for us. And maybe a Dev or QC person with a bit more insight to the Game Mechanics, could invent some better solution.

If not, perhaps we simply try out the idea of Emoting breaking Stealth?? If it becomes ridiculous, then it gets flipped back.

[Sun Wukong]

Have you ever considered that perhaps, just perhaps, a sneaker is not the only sneaker around? Two sneakers could emote to point their own fingers to pick their targets... which currently pops up... so you are better of just sending tells... which in turn is basicalyl abusing in game mechanics - since someone able to spot you should also see these emotes.

Thus perhaps the more ideal option would be to hide the floating text from anyone who cannot beat the hide/spot or move silently/listen skill match up.

Sadly not everyone uses asterisks (*) to emote, or the same coloured text, nor do all people present their words in common without extra symbols at the beginning or end.

[Azerkatil]

Another issue is, People whom are also invisible at the same time.