Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Stay tuned.

Deathgrowl wrote: Do you guys really, really want this?

If you really, really want DM supported intrigue, you have to accept that you're not privy to the whole picture the same way as the DM is. If your opponents are winning, it's a good chance they simply are picking the more reasonable path.

Just because you're not the whole picture you sure are part of the picture. Be it a blur or a smudge you are still part of the picture. Meaning that even the baddies are part of the bigger picture even by proxy. Most Dms grab baddie guilds to do most of the naughty work to push towards a BBEG event to go under way.

Source: Dead Crows made it possible for the Druids to be eaten by the Aspects of TalosTalona so that the goodies could have an epic fight in the middle of the field against a giant corpse golem.

Dead Crows steal caravans to Goodies stronghold.
Dead Crows attack Barracks in Beregost ...... only to fail after De Oca's gaurd went full crit happy through stone body. *ptsd continues* We hung that day.

Ordren wrote:You just managed to sum up everything i find bad on the server in one post. +1.

Okay.

Ordren wrote:I find it hilarious that people cant take a loss. Them Guild halls scattering the tradeway like monuments to previous beloved PC's endless til the server dies out due to people holding your opinion Sun Wukong.

Perhaps you meant to say something along the lines that until the server dies out due to people acting as I previously described. I reread my previous post and I do not think I actually stated my own opinion on the matter. But as for my actual opinion, I have been on and off on this server for a long time. In my experience, the people that complain how others cannot take a loss are often the ones that cannot take a loss.

As for guild halls, do you know how many of them I have seen destroyed over the years? People have worked very hard towards their guilds and thus they have a valid reason to be upset to see their work go to waste, even if it is a result of entirely fair play, even if the outcome was due to bad luck with the skill/ability/etc, dice rolls. And their reaction will be much worse if the players feel that the outcome was railroaded against them.

Now, we could have a look at the Red Wizards of Thay because for a long time it was pretty much axed as a guild because of previous player and DM interactions - and 'new' Red Wizard players were rather upset that the setting was hostile towards them due to these past events. Yet the Red Wizards of today have their monument in the city of Baldur's Gate. Do you know how easy it would be to argue their monument's removal, all you have to do is pour some salt on those old wounds and provide a magical alternative to the Red Wizards. Not to mention that it is not like the current Red Wizards are the best tenants of the city, it would be so easy to just spread more and more rumors about them.

Ordren wrote:I also find it sad that instead of getting to know each others pc's and actually living out some roleplay as our characters, people are solely focused on their own personal goals for their PC.

Now, here is the thing, player time is and will always be limited. Some have more free time and others, but no one owes another player a moment of their time. Not to mention that it is perfectly fine to role-play a character that is goal orientated, just as it is to role-play someone who is not.

Ordren wrote:"no point in talking to that guy or do anything with him as i know oocly it wont further my pc's goals or may put me in confrontational rp situation because hes of opposite alignment of my pc."

I cannot read minds, but I could ask what comes out of a confrontational role-play situation? More often than not it seems that there is simply no real outcome beyond an OOC diatribe.

Ordren wrote:For me RP is the main attraction of the server and im just not having enough of it to play more than the little while of grinding alone (because what else is there when youre solo and being orc you aint allowed at FAI).

Wear a mask, invest in social skills such as Diplomacy, Bluff, and/or Disguise, and the Bhaal worshiping Elves of the campfire will accept you as one of them.

So far I've found the DM team to be quite open and willing to answer questions or help out. It's the cliques, to me, that are killing the server. When you see the same groups of people always rping together on all their characters and their characters are in all of each other's factions/groups, it tends to feel very exclusive and as if there's a silent dividing wall up. I'm not just talking about on here; cliques are the bane of all servers and its what has killed off many decent servers. Yes, we all like to RP with our friends and yes, we can all be guilty of it without realizing it at times, but when it's to the point where people are leaving/not feeling welcomed to even RP with some because they're not a part of that group....something needs to change.

"We are all in the gutter but some of us are looking at the stars."

--Oscar Wilde

On the topic of Staff vs Players that these sorts of discussions always, always seem to devolve into: All of the staff, absolutely all of it, is entirely taken from the player base. It's not rocket science to figure out the tendencies of the players becomes the tendencies of the staff- they don't magically change over night, no matter how much you think "your buddy became a pod person the minute they became a DM". Which just emphasizes my previous statement of "We are the reason we can't have nice things".

metaquad4 wrote:
Though, the playerbase there was never as ego-driven and "whiney" as they are here.

I think it would do some good to tell the playerbase to "stfu, stop complaining, and grow up". The issue with maturity is on both the staff and player's shoulders. If the staff wants players to act like adults, they need to treat the players like adults and not indulge their BS. If their BS isn't dignified with a serious response, they likely won't fling any of it since it'd be a waste of time. I'm willing to bet that players act the way they do on this server because the (various) staff(s) ha(ve)s a history of indulging their worse behaviors.

Ehhhh, to be fair, I don't have enough experience with sending in DM complaints to really speak on the "serious response" aspect, but the couple of times where I did interact with the staff on something I felt like it was handled in the most appropriate manner. The problem I genuinely have is the amount of time and utter persistence it takes to get any form of a response from the DM team- and I don't think that's necessarily a matter of quality of the staff, so much as it's a desperate need to restructure how the hell staff handles things. There's been a glaring server rules violation sitting out in plain sight for... months now. And nothing's been done about it, because apparently this was something that needed to be hotly debated until... I guess people just quit talking about it, so they figured the problem went away? I don't know. Thing is, things like this, player requests, etc? Do not need to be the source of multiple weeks worth of debate. All it does is p!ss off anybody and everybody who's ever sent in anything and wondered, after weeks, if they were just yelling at a wall. It's a simple solution: Debate it for a week. Each person gets to opine. At the end of a week, an HDM makes a call on it, and THAT IS THE FINAL WORD. If the DM team operated with a little better efficiency, I'd suspect there would be more than a few less disgruntled people.

As for the player cliques.. I don't think there is a force on the planet that will change that particular behavior because it's literally hardwired right into our monkey brain. That being said, I do see a lot of alt behavior that absolutely wouldn't be allowed on a server with higher RP standards, but that's an entirely different and entirely pointless gripe on my part because there's no rules against it, other than what we as players impose upon ourselves or the leaders of various guilds enforce. BUT! Back to cliques! As much as we believe total inclusiveness is absolutely what we must strive for... it won't happen. People will always, always gravitate toward smaller, more comfortable groups of like minded individuals and then, because we're all monkeys, we get wound up and hoot and fling poop at "strangers and invaders of our territory, and that guy bob because he's a (person)" when we feel that group is threatened in some way. Then, eventually, "so and so said this about so and such" and the clique self destructs. New one forms, and will... self destruct. It's written somewhere in stone that this will happen, especially in video game land (every RP server, in every game I've RP'd in... same thing every time).

metaquad4 wrote:
Though, the playerbase there was never as ego-driven and "whiney" as they are here.

I think it would do some good to tell the playerbase to "stfu, stop complaining, and grow up". The issue with maturity is on both the staff and player's shoulders. If the staff wants players to act like adults, they need to treat the players like adults and not indulge their BS. If their BS isn't dignified with a serious response, they likely won't fling any of it since it'd be a waste of time. I'm willing to bet that players act the way they do on this server because the (various) staff(s) ha(ve)s a history of indulging their worse behaviors.

I don't think it's constructive to call the player-base whiny and ego-driven, to be honest. I wonder what server you are referring to where the player-base was never as bad as here? I imagine they are pretty dead now population-wise. I feel comfortable saying this because most if not all servers have died off save for social servers, and a few stragglers like Ravenloft and Arelith in NWN1, and BGTSCC in NWN2.

Notice that the most hardcore servers seem to have died the quickest deaths. Now, I don't personally hate hardcore rules or anything. I played those perma-death zombie survival servers just like everyone else in NWN1! They were fun, to be honest. However, I think there is something to be said of BGTSCC's longevity. If the formula was truly so bad the server would have died like all the others. Surely in time the server will eventually come to its end, but to be honest it's much stronger than the other servers that I've mentioned.

Unlike the social servers, BG tries to at least promote an atmosphere that is about adventure and intrigue over ERP and fetishes. I'm not going to say I know all of what goes on beneath the surface, but I for one prefer BGTSCC over any of the other servers I've mentioned. I imagine most of the naysayers do too seeing as they are here, and not there.

Do I think the server needs criticism? Absolutely. The player-base too, for sure! However, simply making broad-sweeping statements about the player-base being "whiny" and "ego-driven" doesn't really do anything but cause further division. Saying the staff needs to treat the player-base like adults is more than a little vague to me. It's not a very useful thing to say. Especially considering this game is for both kids and adults.

Now, I'm not saying I have the solutions, or that there aren't any problems. I'm just saying that voicing them in such an insulting way isn't going to help get your point across. Maybe that is the point though. Maybe you're jaded from trying, and are just lashing out. I honestly don't know your story. If you want to talk about being treated like adults though then I think self-reflection is a good place to start. *Equips his plot armor in preparation*

Fury_US wrote: because we're all monkeys, we get wound up and hoot and fling poop at "strangers and invaders of our territory, and that guy bob because he's a (person)" when we feel that group is threatened in some way. .

Guurl...you made me laugh SO hard at that image. <3

Babuguuscooties wrote:

metaquad4 wrote:
Though, the playerbase there was never as ego-driven and "whiney" as they are here.

I think it would do some good to tell the playerbase to "stfu, stop complaining, and grow up". The issue with maturity is on both the staff and player's shoulders. If the staff wants players to act like adults, they need to treat the players like adults and not indulge their BS. If their BS isn't dignified with a serious response, they likely won't fling any of it since it'd be a waste of time. I'm willing to bet that players act the way they do on this server because the (various) staff(s) ha(ve)s a history of indulging their worse behaviors.

I don't think it's constructive to call the player-base whiny and ego-driven, to be honest. I wonder what server you are referring to where the player-base was never as bad as here? I imagine they are pretty dead now population-wise. I feel comfortable saying this because most if not all servers have died off save for social servers, and a few stragglers like Ravenloft and Arelith in NWN1, and BGTSCC in NWN2.

Notice that the most hardcore servers seem to have died the quickest deaths. Now, I don't personally hate hardcore rules or anything. I played those perma-death zombie survival servers just like everyone else in NWN1! They were fun, to be honest. However, I think there is something to be said of BGTSCC's longevity. If the formula was truly so bad the server would have died like all the others. Surely in time the server will eventually come to its end, but to be honest it's much stronger than the other servers that I've mentioned.

Unlike the social servers, BG tries to at least promote an atmosphere that is about adventure and intrigue over ERP and fetishes. I'm not going to say I know all of what goes on beneath the surface, but I for one prefer BGTSCC over any of the other servers I've mentioned. I imagine most of the naysayers do too seeing as they are here, and not there.

Do I think the server needs criticism? Absolutely. The player-base too, for sure! However, simply making broad-sweeping statements about the player-base being "whiny" and "ego-driven" doesn't really do anything but cause further division. Saying the staff needs to treat the player-base like adults is more than a little vague to me. It's not a very useful thing to say. Especially considering this game is for both kids and adults.

Now, I'm not saying I have the solutions, or that there aren't any problems. I'm just saying that voicing them in such an insulting way isn't going to help get your point across. Maybe that is the point though. Maybe you're jaded from trying, and are just lashing out. I honestly don't know your story. If you want to talk about being treated like adults though then I think self-reflection is a good place to start. *Equips his plot armor in preparation*

I for one dont see any insult.

Face wrote:

Babuguuscooties wrote:

metaquad4 wrote:
Though, the playerbase there was never as ego-driven and "whiney" as they are here.

I think it would do some good to tell the playerbase to "stfu, stop complaining, and grow up".

I'm just saying that voicing them in such an insulting way isn't going to help get your point across.

I for one dont see any insult.

Hopefully that helps.

Yeah still dont see any insult there.
You feel offended why exactly?

Face wrote:Yeah still dont see any insult there.
You feel offended why exactly?

It's not really about me. I'm not personally offended because I'm new to the playerbase. It likely isn't even talking about me. My point was calling people whiny and saying they need to ''stfu'' isn't going to get your point across. It's not even a mature approach to getting your point across. Ironically, it came off as ''whiny''.

+1

Babuguuscooties wrote:

Face wrote:Yeah still dont see any insult there.
You feel offended why exactly?

It's not really about me. I'm not personally offended because I'm new to the playerbase. It likely isn't even talking about me. My point was calling people whiny and saying they need to ''stfu'' isn't going to get your point across. It's not even a mature approach to getting your point across. Ironically, it came off as ''whiny''.

But at the same time a firm hand is sometimes needed.

Well some times people can be whiny you and me included im sure
And whats wrong with it when some one is telling us to shut up when we are whiny?

*Gows back to his childhood with a smile* I remember falling of my bike as a kid and busting my chin open...
My mom gave me a kiss cleaned it but when i kept crying she told me to grow up and stop whining.

Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

Face wrote:Well some times people can be whiny you and me included im sure
And whats wrong with it when some one is telling us to shut up when we are whiny?

*Gows back to his childhood with a smile* I remember falling of my bike as a kid and busting my chin open...
My mom gave me a kiss cleaned it but when i kept crying she told me to grow up and stop whining.

Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

Agree to disagree, my man. <3 I don't wanna get the thread locked over my opinion incase others still have more to say.