Game Mechanics Discrimination

[professiondude]

I personally love the new changes, I can run around on the surface searching for RP and not feel bad for killing 1000's of NPC's.

DM's don't have to worry about us farming the surface because we won't get a dang thing for it. It's a good change in my eyes.
Also when I'm being a cave drow I no longer feel bad for defending myself when a horde of (Insert cave monster) attack me, now i can kill them and feel like i'm not cheating the server.

Time to massacre the xvartz at night for research purposes.


If you feel this segregates the server UD/Surface you're not being the best drow you can be.
Drow life has always been hard and it always will be. Until we get a rebuild of the UD maps and a few UD DM's we will have it rough and just create our own content, that means we form up with other UD races and make some wicked cool content for ourselves without a DM or we go on a surface excursion for some reason we could only muster.

Drow won't stop because we don't get invisible exp points, we keep going til we get our task done so we can go back to the dark dark underdark that we love so much.

You are only a victim if you choose to let these changes affect you, adapt, press on, win.
The only way to survive the horrible darkness and boredom is to unify as UD PC's and continue being the master race(s) we were meant to be. ;D


((Only thing i'm seriously concerned about in this thread: What happens to those drow that applied and got their OOC citizenship to live on the surface? If they want to do loot runs they're not allowed to do it on the surface now...?))

[Tsidkenu]

((Only thing i'm seriously concerned about in this thread: What happens to those drow that applied and got their OOC citizenship to live on the surface? If they want to do loot runs they're not allowed to do it on the surface now...?))

Valefort whipped up a custom feat, given out by DM approval only, which override the anti xp/loot scripts. Those who want it have to apply for it.

[KOPOJIbPAKOB]

((Only thing i'm seriously concerned about in this thread: What happens to those drow that applied and got their OOC citizenship to live on the surface? If they want to do loot runs they're not allowed to do it on the surface now...?))

Valefort whipped up a custom feat, given out by DM approval only, which override the anti xp/loot scripts. Those who want it have to apply for it.

That feat won't be granted to anyone until the DM team decides what to do with all these restrictions issues (that is what they told me). As for discrimination, the things are really bad now. For example, UD characters can not loot at Ogre caves which is ridicolous at least.

[Steve]

((Only thing i'm seriously concerned about in this thread: What happens to those drow that applied and got their OOC citizenship to live on the surface? If they want to do loot runs they're not allowed to do it on the surface now...?))

Valefort whipped up a custom feat, given out by DM approval only, which override the anti xp/loot scripts. Those who want it have to apply for it.

Possible preferential treatment is NOT the way to go. It’s like throwing fuel on the fire of favoritism!

[Tekill]

I am a little unclear about what the purpose of this new game mechanic actually is. Logically I would guess it is to prevent sufacers or UD'ers from grinding on the other side. But was it such a problem in the first place?
I did not notice anything.

I read that it was to deter drow PVP baiting surfacers. I think that was just an assumption, as that theory just does not make any logical sense. Unless it's purpose is to draw a line in the sand between the surface and UD, as a general deterrence to UD/Surface RP.

There are definately a number of people who do not think there should be Surface/UD RP. That it should be rare or impossible. That the two sides belong in separate realms. And that they should even be on different servers.

And they would not be wrong. Although many Animals, plants, insects, monsters, and various playable races and entire ecosystems are able to live and thrive un the UD, its still a harsh environment, especially for those unfamiliar to it - or maybe without survival skill points invested.
And the same goes visa versa for the poor UD'er that wanders into the light. The surface is a terrible dangerous place for those ill prepared for it....they got weather up there! Weather!

The thing that confuses though is that there are quite a few differences between both Sshamath and Rockrun that makes both these cities different from your stereotypical Drow/Svirf cities. As far as I have seen both these cities are much more social in nature. For example, I would say Sshamath is ideally more NE than your average CE lolthite city. But really though, I would say Sschamath comes across as really not that evil at all. Surfacers are kos un the UD, right? Are sufacers allowed in Sshamath? My surfacer wandered the streets of Sshamath a few times, and I have seen other sufacers there (for RP reasons naturally) very recently.

The point about these cities Im trying to make is that I find these hubs are created, to be more social to the point that Rockrun has its doors wide open to surfacers. A double standard my Svirv has experienced while visiting the surface both IC and OOC. Svirv are treated as an Underdark Race not an Upperdark race even though the Upperdark is now no longer part of the Underdark.

I think this is frustrating to us UD'ers. We are getting a lot of mixed signals. We are really Surfacers friendly or at least surfacer nuetral yet the suface cities are not UD nuetral. We UD'ers are RPing the cities we live in, which are atypical for the lore of the UD races. Why is that?

One way or another this game mechanic is a line being drawn between the Surface and UD. With that, if its going to be frowned on to partake in Surface/UD RP, then why are our cities so open to the surfacers?

If the lines are being drawn. If we are not to mingle the above and below, then that means the UD is currently broken.

(excuse the grammer and typos and the wall of text)

[Invoker]

I would say Sschamath comes across as really not that evil at all.

You are sorely mistaken. Just to give you an idea, one of the most influential conclave members (Tsabrak of the Blood, Necromancy) is a CE Drow Vampire. Almost all the Conclave is constituted by extremely evil Drow.

Coming to Sshamath rarely ends well for anyone not deemed very useful by the Drow. Unless they can idly stumble upon a reason not to kill you...you're dead. Or worse.

Surfacers are kos in the UD, right? Are sufacers allowed in Sshamath? My surfacer wandered the streets of Sshamath a few times, and I have seen other sufacers there (for RP reasons naturally) very recently.

Sure. Even my Drow wizard would be able to walk through Baldur's Gate unscathed. I respect the players too much to perform my little experiment for fear of disrupting RP and ruining the "feel" for the setting, but I am very, very convinced I'd have no trouble whatsoever getting there, and strolling around like a champ.
Until a DM sees what I'm doing, that is.

It isn't a matter of being "KoS" or "allowed". The Drow resort to violence as normal, daily interaction. There is no concept of equality in Drow society: you are either superior, or inferior. If superior, you rule with an iron fist. If inferior, you grovel for your life. Failing to do so means you'll soon disappear.

If you aren't even a Drow, you're not just inferior: you're insignificant. Disposing of you? They wouldn't even consider it "killing". Much different if you have express Conclave mandate, or you are affiliated to a powerful Drow (ie, a well-known merchant, a high ranked member of the 7th Circle and so on). THEN, nobody would casually sever your spinal chord, but the ENEMIES of those powers would probably make sure you have an "accident", and those aren't rare in the UD.

People don't respect the setting because they don't KNOW the setting. But that IS the setting.

If the lines are being drawn. If we are not to mingle the above and below, then that means the UD is currently broken.

The UD isn't broken. Unless the majority of the UDers are away from the UD, doing things that go against the UD setting, with plans that do not contemplate the UD in the least bit...and if they could, they'd just play Drow or other UD races on the surface, because the UD, for them, is just an inconvenience.

And if that is the case, is the UD really the problem? Or this mechanic?

I personally don't think so.

[Steve]

People don't respect the setting because they don't KNOW the setting. But that IS the setting.

But some of it IS BUILT INTO the setting, unfortunately.

Otherwise, I wholeheartedly agree that if Players aren’t respecting the setting, them...you have a failed setting. No matter how many DM Smackdowns or mechanical limits are put into place.

I know people will continue to think I’m an ass for this opinion, but just the often RP’d Friendly Drow Character will forever ruin the setting for me. I’ve played Drow, I’ve played Duegar, I’ve played Svifs...and the overall “helping hand” RP that IS IN CHARACTER, not OOC help which is something else, made me think that the UD is a kinder place than the Surface!

I’ve had “meaner” interactions at the FAI campfire than in the UD! WTF?!?

[NegInfinity]

I’ve had “meaner” interactions at the FAI campfire than in the UD! WTF?!?

Someone had "Underdark is where good guys pretend to be evil, and surface is where bad guys pretend to be good" in their signature. Or something. You decide whether there's truth in it or not.

In general, however, I think that "forces of light" are more likely to spawn a murderous lunatic that will happily commit genocide, than forces of evil.

[Invoker]

People don't respect the setting because they don't KNOW the setting. But that IS the setting.

But some of it IS BUILT INTO the setting, unfortunately.

That's not the setting I found in 2011, and was not the setting I was given mandate to create until 2013.

I didn't find any earth-shattering signs anywhere, in game nor on these forums, that would indicate Sshamath having become Planet Unicorn during my absence.

[Steve]

@Invoker: Rockrun, for starters. But 2011/2013 and the years inbetween 2018 are just something else!

[Invoker]

@Invoker: Rockrun, for starters. But 2011/2013 and the years inbetween 2018 are just something else!

Rockrun is freaking Upperdark.

As for the years gone, yeah. But I still didn't read anywhere that the Conclave had been given the sack, his members to be replaced by Feathers, Cadillac and Tom Cruise.

Must have missed it.

[aaron22]

talk of setting is pretty subjective. steve's UD setting, Invoker's UD setting and my UD setting are often completely different settings. the setting is not what it is supposed to be or what you think it should be. setting is what it is and what the people you make contact with make it.

[Invoker]

talk of setting is pretty subjective. steve's UD setting, Invoker's UD setting and my UD setting are often completely different settings. the setting is not what it is supposed to be or what you think it should be. setting is what it is and what the people you make contact with make it.

I disagree.

Otherwise, my Drow could camp BG when no DM is around.

Setting comes with D&D lore and server lore which are very, very specific, and DM rulings to boot. And it needs to be respected, otherwise it becomes ridiculous really fast.

[aaron22]

talk of setting is pretty subjective. steve's UD setting, Invoker's UD setting and my UD setting are often completely different settings. the setting is not what it is supposed to be or what you think it should be. setting is what it is and what the people you make contact with make it.

I disagree.

Otherwise, my Drow could camp BG when no DM is around.

Setting comes with D&D lore and server lore which are very, very specific, and DM rulings to boot. And it needs to be respected, otherwise it becomes ridiculous really fast.

lore and canon are the baselines and templates that generate a setting. BGTSCC's setting is what the players and DMs make it.

ex. lets say gnolls are made a playable and 4 players start a little gnoll pack. these gnolls then help out the good guys and push back an enemy and become valued allies to the good cause. going to tea parties and dress-up dances. there are still AI gnolls that are evil and savage, but now there are also these barbie doll gnolls... setting is changed and has nothing at all to do with lore. gnolls on BGTSCC can now be ken doll/martha stewart gnolls and savages.

lore=/=setting

[Invoker]

talk of setting is pretty subjective. steve's UD setting, Invoker's UD setting and my UD setting are often completely different settings. the setting is not what it is supposed to be or what you think it should be. setting is what it is and what the people you make contact with make it.

I disagree.

Otherwise, my Drow could camp BG when no DM is around.

Setting comes with D&D lore and server lore which are very, very specific, and DM rulings to boot. And it needs to be respected, otherwise it becomes ridiculous really fast.

lore and canon are the baselines and templates that generate a setting. BGTSCC's setting is what the players and DMs make it.

ex. lets say gnolls are made a playable and 4 players start a little gnoll pack. these gnolls then help out the good guys and push back an enemy and become valued allies to the good cause. going to tea parties and dress-up dances. there are still AI gnolls that are evil and savage, but now there are also these barbie doll gnolls... setting is changed and has nothing at all to do with lore. gnolls on BGTSCC can now be ken doll/martha stewart gnolls and savages.

lore=/=setting

Yes, but you misread. That's why I said lore AND SERVER LORE as well as DM RULINGS (which is, what BGTSCC made of the original setting). Check the quote.

There's nothing in that department so outlandish that it would prompt such a colossal deviation from canon lore as letting "random kivvil X" walk around Sshamath without a care in the world.

Just because you (generic, not you personally) haven't got a clue, it does not authorize you (again, generic) to do such kind of BS. It's like a Drow in the Duchal Palace, really.