Cavestalker progression for Spirit Shaman

[TheKai]

Well, I’ll be a bearded Mystra.

Yay! Thanks!

[joleda]

[EasternCheesE]

It's open, but doesn't grant spell progression currently, marked for Devs to check.

[YYA]

How would it actually work though? Cavestalker for Spirit Shamans?

Because honestly, I would probably just take advantage of the full BAB and spellcasting progression with the foilowing build: Spirit Shaman 10/Cavestalker 10/Hospitaler 10, pick some earth related deity aside from Grumbar, and make some high strength build that gains caster level of 30 with BAB of 27. It seems that these days Hospitaler lets you pick any Great Ability feat... which means that +10 strength modifier and higher can be reached with but a cast of Bull's Strength. In other words, 4 Attacks with Northlander Hewing, extra damage from spells, DR and regeneration from spells, AC from spells... and that 40+ AB. It is not the greatest build, but it gets the job done. Or I could just go all in on wisdom or even charisma, and Shapechange into something to duke it all out with that high BAB. Blood Magic will help out with spell DCs.

[Anchor]

It's open, but doesn't grant spell progression currently, marked for Devs to check.

Did this get fixed in the second update?

[EasternCheesE]

I doubt it since update was to bugfix critical issues that got broken.

Upd. Yup, no progression as of today.

[TheKai]

So. close. Almost. There!

[Rhifox]

Will be fixed next script patch. Cavestalker apparently applies its spell progression feats by script instead of through level 1 feat choices, so I hadn't realized I needed to add it there. Will work next time a script update goes in.

[EasternCheesE]

How would it actually work though? Cavestalker for Spirit Shamans?

Because honestly, I would probably just take advantage of the full BAB and spellcasting progression with the foilowing build: Spirit Shaman 10/Cavestalker 10/Hospitaler 10, pick some earth related deity aside from Grumbar, and make some high strength build that gains caster level of 30 with BAB of 27. It seems that these days Hospitaler lets you pick any Great Ability feat... which means that +10 strength modifier and higher can be reached with but a cast of Bull's Strength. In other words, 4 Attacks with Northlander Hewing, extra damage from spells, DR and regeneration from spells, AC from spells... and that 40+ AB. It is not the greatest build, but it gets the job done. Or I could just go all in on wisdom or even charisma, and Shapechange into something to duke it all out with that high BAB. Blood Magic will help out with spell DCs.

But, isn't it all already available to druid? Please correct me if i'm wrong.

[joleda]

Druid has one stat for spells and DC, while SS has two. Druid gets a free pet, while SS does not. Druid has more power than the SS in every measurable way.

[EasternCheesE]

Druid has one stat for spells and DC, while SS has two. Druid gets a free pet, while SS does not. Druid has more power than the SS in every measurable way.

if you speak of my reply, i wanted to check if things that YYA described are available to druid. If they are, there is no problem with SS also getting access to said build because spirit shamans don't get anything that is super common on server that druids don't.
So if SS comes closer to druid on power scale, it's totally okay. But if this change somehow opens new possibilities that druids can't have, that's what we didn't intend with it.

[YYA]

But, isn't it all already available to druid? Please correct me if i'm wrong.

Yes, the combination is already available to a Druid, and a druid could certainly make use of a high strength build with that 27 BAB, fill their spell book with offensive spells and duke it out while poly-morphed into another form. The high wisdom for DC could even be combined with Zen Archery, and hopefully Intuitive Attack in the future, and thus such a character could indeed excel in many things. You would even have a moderately strong animal companion, which would lessen enemy attention on your own character, in addition to possible summons... So yeah, Druid are strong.

However, regardless of the many detriments that a Spirit Shaman has, Spirit Shaman nevertheless has something that the druid simply lacks, and that is Spontaneous Spell Casting. Thus, when a Spirit Shaman gets a particular buff dispelled, he can just re-apply it, if he heeds summons he can just summon, if he needs to throw a different offensive spell: he simply can. Therefore, while most Druid players would never consider using a spell such as 'Inferno' -- but a Spirit Shaman is free to Extend, Empower, or Maximize it and just run around in circles as the fire damage slowly ticks, thanks to nothing more than movement speed increases from stuff like Longstrider or Storm Avatar. Which brings us back to the Wisdom based Spirit Shaman I had on this server, a long time ago, who literally could just slowly spam Acidic Splatter and kill most of the server because all those defensive and offensive spells in the Druidic spell list just kept him alive, while standing under the effects of Storm of Vengeance. Well back then the server was more aimed at High AC and AB enemies, instead of ones with massive HP pools, so mileage today might vary.

But generally speaking; Spirit Shamans are pretty much free from all the lore constraints of Druids, so also much more fun to play in my opinion.

[mrm3ntalist]

and that is Spontaneous Spell Casting

People do not realize how big spontaneous casting is in game. A druid, a wizard or a cleric with their memorized spell book can get a key spell cancelled by a save, or even worse dispelled and they might have to run away because they do not have anything else to deal with this situation. A spontaneous caster can recast, as long as the spell selection is made to cover all situations

BTW did Spirit Shamans get an extra spell per level like sorcerers?

[Anchor]

But generally speaking; Spirit Shamans are pretty much free from all the lore constraints of Druids, so also much more fun to play in my opinion.

One could argue, if properly RP'd IAW lore, shamans are much more constrained by their lore.

[Rhifox]

BTW did Spirit Shamans get an extra spell per level like sorcerers?

No, because they already have and *still* know more than sorcs. One of the reasons I was in favor of the sorc change - I already feel limited enough as shaman, so when I found out how few they get I was appalled. How did you even function like that? :p