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You can still do this with Evil alignment tbh. Like, I don't care either way whether Hellfire requires being Evil or not (but as I quoted before, in pnp at least there is no requirement), but RP-wise there's a lot of freedom in what you can RP in most alignments.TravelingVagrant wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:14 pm Ultimately, if someone wants to RP a tortured-morally-gray warlock who uses Hellfire but battles against it's darker impulses, the system NWN2 is based on says it's fine, so I tend to agree.
Rhifox wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:54 pmYou can still do this with Evil alignment tbh. Like, I don't care either way whether Hellfire requires being Evil or not (but as I quoted before, in pnp at least there is no requirement), but RP-wise there's a lot of freedom in what you can RP in most alignments.TravelingVagrant wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:14 pm Ultimately, if someone wants to RP a tortured-morally-gray warlock who uses Hellfire but battles against it's darker impulses, the system NWN2 is based on says it's fine, so I tend to agree.
It just seems to me like that has more to do with the gods than my character. And I'm interested in discovering my character, not what gods think of it. But perhaps this is what you meant with:
That sounds like something more interested to explore in roleplay. And I don't perceive that as allignment, too. Good PC can be just as much vulnerable to addition as an evil one. Which goes back to Warlock and Hellfire Warlock. I, personally, still don't think alignment requirement is necessary. Not that I think any alignment is necessary. Sounds like a system that just promotes metagaming (here's a Smite, because I know you're evil from the color of your magic!).
Thing is, the alignment system is for the gods - not for the PCs. Let's say an edge case where through vile and dark acts, you unlocked the power of Hellfire and channel it within the Prime Material without selling your soul to a devil.Louvaine wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:54 pmIt just seems to me like that has more to do with the gods than my character. And I'm interested in discovering my character, not what gods think of it. But perhaps this is what you meant with:
That sounds like something more interested to explore in roleplay. And I don't perceive that as allignment, too. Good PC can be just as much vulnerable to addition as an evil one. Which goes back to Warlock and Hellfire Warlock. I, personally, still don't think alignment requirement is necessary. Not that I think any alignment is necessary. Sounds like a system that just promotes metagaming (here's a Smite, because I know you're evil from the color of your magic!).
I'd argue they are both, actually.
And as well the Player's Handbook 3.5e:A character can have a change of heart that leads to the adoption of a different alignment. Alignments aren’t commitments, except in specific cases (such as for paladins and clerics). Player characters have free will, and their actions often dictate a change of alignment. Here are two examples of how a change of alignment can be handled.
• A player creates a new character, a rogue named Garrett. The player decides he wants Garrett to be neutral good and writes
that on Garrett’s character sheet. By the second playing session of Garrett’s career, however, it’s clear that the player isn’t playing Garrett as a good-aligned character at all. Garrett likes to steal minor valuables from others (although not his friends) and does not care about helping people or stopping evil. Garrett is a
neutral character, and the player made a mistake when declaring Garrett’s alignment because he hadn’t yet really decided how he wanted to play him. The DM tells the player to erase “good” on Garrett’s character sheet, making his alignment simply “neutral.” No big deal.
• An NPC traveling with the PCs is chaotic evil and is pretending to be otherwise because he was sent to spy on them and foil their plans. He has been evil all his life, and he has lived among others who acted as he did. As he fights alongside the goodaligned PC adventurers, however, he sees how they work together and help each other. He begins to envy them their camaraderie. Finally, he watches as the paladin PC gives his life to save not only his friends, but an entire town that was poised on the brink of destruction at the hands of an evil sorcerer. Everyone is deeply moved, including the evil NPC, and the town celebrates and honors the paladin’s self-sacrifice. The townfolk hail the adventurers as heroes. The NPC is so moved that he repents, casting aside his own evil ways (and his
mission). He becomes chaotic neutral, but he is well on his way to becoming chaotic good, particularly if he remains in the company of the PCs. If the PCs had not acted so gallantly, he might not have changed his ways. If they turn on the NPC when they learn of his past, he may turn back to evil.
Most characters incur no game penalty for changing alignment, but you should keep a few points in mind.
You’re [DMs] in Control: You control alignment changes, not the players. If a player says, “My neutral good character becomes chaotic good,” the appropriate response from you is “Prove it.” Actions dictate alignment, not statements of intent by players.
Alignment Change Is Gradual: Changes in alignment should not be drastic. Usually, a character changes alignment only one step at a time—from lawful evil to lawful neutral, for example, and not directly to neutral good. A character on her way to adopting another alignment might have other alignments during the
transition to the final alignment.
Time Requirements: Changing alignment usually takes time. Changes of heart are rarely sudden (although they can be). What you want to avoid is a player changing her character’s alignment to evil to use an evil artifact properly and then changing it right back when she’s done. Alignments aren’t garments you can take off and put on casually. Require an interval of at least a week of game time between alignment changes.
Indecisiveness Indicates Neutrality: Wishy-washy characters should just be neutral. If a character changes alignment over and over again during a campaign, what’s really happened is that the character hasn’t made a choice, and thus she is neutral.
Exceptions: There are exceptions to all of the above. For instance, it’s possible (although unlikely) that the most horrible neutral evil villain has a sudden and dramatic change of heart and immediately becomes neutral good.
Based on the two sources above, it would be my assumption that, related to Hellfire Warlock and the OP, the DM Team at some point in time decided that ONLY a Evil aligned PC would become a Hellfire Warlock. That to wield this power would either a) corrupt the soul of a Character towards Evil, or b) being Evil in soul is the point-of-access to such Hellish powers.ALIGNMENT
In the temple of Pelor is an ancient tome. When the temple recruits adventurers for its most sensitive and important quests, each one who wants to participate must kiss the book. Those who are evil in their hearts are blasted by holy power, and even those who are neither good nor evil are stunned. Only those who are good can kiss the tome without harm and are trusted with the temple’s most important work. Good and evil are not philosophical concepts in the D&D game. They are the forces that define the cosmos.
Devils in human guise stalk the land, tempting people toward evil. Holy clerics use the power of good to protect worshipers. Devotees of evil gods bring ruin on innocents to win the favor of their deities, while trusting that rewards await them in the afterlife. Crusading paladins fearlessly confront evildoers, knowing that
this short life is nothing worth clinging to. Warlords turn to whichever supernatural power will help them conquer, and proxies for good and evil gods promise rewards in return for the warlords’ oaths of obedience.
A creature’s general moral and personal attitudes are represented by its alignment: lawful good, neutral good, chaotic good, lawful neutral, neutral, chaotic neutral, lawful evil, neutral evil, and chaotic evil. Choose an alignment for your character, using his or her race and class as a guide. Most player characters are good or neutral rather than evil. In general, evil alignments are for villains and monsters.
Alignment is a tool for developing your character’s identity. It is not a straitjacket for restricting your character. Each alignment represents a broad range of
personality types or personal philosophies, so two lawful good characters can still be quite different from each other. In addition, few people are completely consistent. A lawful good character may have a greedy streak that occasionally tempts him to take something or hoard something he has even if that’s not lawful or good behavior. People are also not consistent from day to day. A good character can lose his temper, a neutral character can be inspired to perform a noble act, and so on.
Choosing an alignment for your character means stating your intent to play that character a certain way. If your character acts in a way more appropriate to another alignment, the DM may decide that your character’s alignment has changed to match her actions.
Now that is something I could get behind. Warlocks get too much social privileges other dark mages lack.Steve wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:15 pmFREE THE HELLFIRE WARLOCKS FROM THEIR EVIL SHACKLES!!! But also make Hellfire use punishable by Death in all civilized lands. Because as we've already gone through, even if you're PC is not Evil but utilizing Hellfire, they should be systematically shunned from society.
I agree that anyone should be able to use it without restriction to alignment or ethic, just like anyone can use murder. However, devoting one's self and one's agenda to using those tools is a slope that strongly trends in the evil direction as one commits further and further.Blame The Rogue wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:38 pm https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Hellfire
One branch of warlocks that could use hellfire regardless of their ethical and moral outlook were the hellfire warlocks.
It also says that they have a penchant to bully people.Hellfire warlocks were the target of distrust, if not of outright hostility. Warlocks in general were not trusted, and when it came to warlocks who openly used the evil powers of Baator, people saw even less reasons to trust them. Only those hellfire warlocks who successfully hid their unique powers could hope to be met with normal reactions by other people. That said, not every hellfire warlock was evil, but it was quite normal for hellfire warlocks to head groups of thugs and/or devils as part of infernal cults against organizations dedicated to good. Hellfire warlocks with relationships to infernal cults took guardian and enforcer jobs, and were valued members of such cults thanks to their combat abilities.[2]