Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

I would love any life in the UD to spark again. Diversity is needed after all, and as long as no gnomes run around with 'rubber' weapons, I'm happy.

ACTUALLY, the lore of Sshamath having orcs and goblins as slaves is a second edition lore-thing.

In 3.5, orcs and goblins cast magic.

In 2.0 they didn't, seemingly, and Sshamath had a law which made every races able to cast magic protected from slavery whitin sshamath, exept for the slaves of 'visitors'.


This is another of those things that don't match together. NWN2 (and 3.5) mechanics & 2.0 lore.

The new mechanics contradict the lore of Sshamath, because these races are known to be able to cast spells.



....It's a headache.

Svirfneblin are resolutely neutral and only really concerned with their own affairs - they're not racially inclined to good in the way that surface dwarves and gnomes are. Any agreement between deep gnomes and KH would probably have to favour the svirfs over the benefit to the dwarves for them to take the risk of drawing attention to themselves - the UD is full of bigger, nastier things (and people) who would quite happily slaughter or enslave all deep gnomes they come across.

That said, I'm sure they'd be very happy to have a powerful ally to protect them against said horrors. Just make sure your deep gnome cohorts aren't played like cheerful, inventive surface gnomes (with rubber weapons, yes...) - they're racially gloomy and suspicious due to centuries of persecution.

well my orginal plan was to make a philock a sibvin community, I doubt any dark ones rp has happened in the ud, and the lore for our region of the ud is very sketchy so some freedoms would have to be taken.

The basic back story would be that darkone's abandoned it some time ago, where and why they went would be a dm adventure

and the sibs moved into the region and took over the old sharran ruins, and created a small community there

They will need some good reason that they are keeping the place, and not being invaded by Sshamath. A mining operation that supplies the city perhaps?

Passiflora wrote:ACTUALLY, the lore of Sshamath having orcs and goblins as slaves is a second edition lore-thing.

In 3.5, orcs and goblins cast magic.

In 2.0 they didn't, seemingly, and Sshamath had a law which made every races able to cast magic protected from slavery whitin sshamath, exept for the slaves of 'visitors'.


This is another of those things that don't match together. NWN2 (and 3.5) mechanics & 2.0 lore.

The new mechanics contradict the lore of Sshamath, because these races are known to be able to cast spells.



....It's a headache.

The drow would not allow races such as orcs and the like to be given more freedoms. If there is an orc in Sshamath that shows arcane prowess, by law he becomes free, yes, but by drow culture he becomes target number 1 of any self-respecting mage and his assassins.

Pretty much like warlocks or necromancers on the surface - if you are found to be one, you have the freedom but at the same time you should be KoS (not that the rules say that atm). Drow are not ones to share power with goblinoids or racers even filthier than humans. As if it wasn't bad already...

@7threalm

If you think you are a beacon to attract players to the UD - go for it. Though if I may suggest, before going anywhere, look into what the svib-drow relations are like, in the Drow of The Underdark book. My sketchy knowledge tells me svibs are the first target of any drow raid

Snirvs are very rare in drow society and are hated enemies. They absolutely hate drow and if they were in a drow city, that would be very unusual indeed. Generally they would be there as slaves, to be offered up on an altar to Lolth, or as spies. Possibly special envoys would come as well, but generally not. Sshamath would be a different story because it is an odd ball city, and especially if the gnome was a wizard, they might even be welcome.

That being said Snirvs would keep to themselves a lot and hide what they were doing. They might have a Snirv merchant house represented there, but only because Sshamath is an unusual city imho.

Snirvs themselves are just pure awesomeness, and don't let anything deter you from playing them if you want to, but just keep in mind, you'll be an odd ball, and you better be able to stand up for yourself of have some impressive backup. Maybe grab that Tanaruk as your personal body guard.

I think as UD roleplayers we will all be helpful and kind to each other in learning how to rp as most accurately as we can down there, so don't worry.

They are. . . But again, Sshamath is different. If the Gnomes were valuable to the city policy, they might enjoy some protection from attack. Spell components that are sold to the city or some such. With a bit of imagination, I'm sure that one could find a reason to make it work.

this is kinda the rp background for the settlement is just an idea, so any thoughts on it would be appreciated

Svirfneblin Village has magical wards of some sort that would "scare" off drow and or dwarves from conquering it for a time being. (some sharran relic that the dark ones used, perhaps a ward that sends hostiles to some shadow plane that they can use on command. The Svirfneblin Village found out the secrets of the device and ultise it to protect their village.

The idea is that philock was abandom by the darkones, reasons unknowm and The Svirfneblin took over the area

The Svirfneblin wouldn't know the orgins of the device

this is the best i could come up within cannon lore


Legend of the Dark Ones -

Netherese from an enclave closely allied with the Shadovar’s realm (having similar made researches) establish themselves and their gnome servants in a cavern system underneath the woods where now the Greenfields are. Their underground habitat – known today as The Netherese Caverns - and their delving too deep – opening or stumbling across a portal to the Plane of Shadow – over time transformed the humans and gnomes to Dark Ones.

Philock is on the – disputable – border between the Upper and Middle Dark, and the Dark Ones have most competition with trolls and goblinoids in the Upper Dark regions and other more dangerous foes from the Middle Dark and denizens from the Plane of Shadow.

The Dark Ones of Philock very rarely venture above ground, and only then in the middle of the night, when Selûne and the stars are hidden by cloud cover.

The Dark Ones of Philock venerate few deities, Shar (in both her own aspect and the aspect of Ibrandul), Baravar Cloakshadow and Jergal are the most common. Leira used to hold a prominent place of worship, until her sudden silence in the Time of Troubles; her clergy’s activities predominantly taken up by Shar and Baravar.

Not very numerous and surrounded by a hostile environment, the Dark Ones rely primarily on stealth and ambushes. The predominant class among the Dark Ones of Philock is rogues, but there are also several Underdark rangers, sorcerers and a few clerics/adepts of the deities aforementioned. Most magic – arcane and divine – centers around the use of shadow magic and illusion.

The Netherese Caverns are not connected by any know Underdark passages, but has seen a few incursions of other races in the past – explorers from Shanatar on their trek North, drow mercenary bands or exiles. At least one clan of Rock-gnomes inhabits an area bordering the Cloak Wood. Cloakers, Hooked-horrors, Umberhulks are commonly encountered creatures.

Philock is in a barren stretch of the Underdark, but in the area of The Netherese Caverns, the only area large enough to hold the initial population of humans and gnomes. The network of tunnels and caverns around Philock only holds sparse amounts of edible food – mostly in the form of fungi and molds. Closer to the surface several ‘wet’ areas exist, and these would make ideal foraging areas weren’t it for the fact that the other denizens of the Upper dark also use these areas for their food and water.

Empoweredfan wrote:They are. . . But again, Sshamath is different. If the Gnomes were valuable to the city policy, they might enjoy some protection from attack. Spell components that are sold to the city or some such. With a bit of imagination, I'm sure that one could find a reason to make it work.

Gnomes are indeed valued in Sshamath for their aptitude with school of Illusion. In the society, gnomes normally stand even lower than the crafty duergars and will be pushed down to the Darkwoods district, with an exception made for the illusionists:

Svirneblin in Sshamath
Svirfnbelin (or deep gnomes) are traditionally very shy and secretive as a race and mortal enemies of the Drow so at first glance it seems odd that they would have such a presence in the city. As has been stated above Sshamath treats slavery rather differently than other Drow enclaves and this coupled with the deep gnomes natural propensity for Illusion magic confers the status of "free" if not "citizen" upon them. In general the Drow population views them even less favorably than the resident Duergar going out of their way to belittle, put-down and generally demean them at every turn. Despited this some Svirneblin still choose to live in Sshamath for the opportunity it brings to trade in some of the rarest gems and minerals in Faeraun.
Most of the deep gnome population resides in the Darkwoods ghetto along with the rest of the free non-citizens of the city although some do reside elsewhere either as retainers to one of the schools of magic or as the occasional merchant in the Dark Weavings bazaar.

On statuses:

The population of Sshamath can be divided into three groups:
Citizens: All Drow living in the city.
Non-Citizens: The Duergar, Svirfneblin, Humans and other races that live in or are visiting the city but aren't slaves.
Slaves: Everyone else.

Citizens
All resident drow are counted as Citizens of the city and are afforded more rights (and have a higher rank) than non-citizens. As a Citizen it is much easier to prevail in any dispute with a non-citizen or visitor, usually only taking a word or declaration from the Citizen for the non-citizen to be declared the loser in the eyes of the city establishment. All non-drow would be wise to keep this in mind, even the lowliest shebali drow Citizen could cause big problems for a non-citizen.

Non-Citizens
While the drow of Sshamath hold themselves above all other races, they do cede a modicum of respect to races capable of true wizardry. As such, slaves include only those races deemed incapable of manipulating wizardly magic, such as chitines, goblins, grimlocks, minotaurs, and ogres. Members of these and similar races who can use arcane magic are seen as anomalies or trick ponies rather than indications of wizardly ability for the race. Notable races excluded from slavery (except as slaves of visitors) include elves, humans, svirfneblin, and deep Imaskari. Constructs, conjured creatures, and controlled undead are considered objects, even when capable of wizardry, and have no rights. Races capable of wizardry who reach Sshamath of their own accord as free-willed beings have the right to remain within the city for as long as they obey its laws and conduct ongoing business with residents. Actual citizenship is never granted to nondrow, though permanent residency is allowed so long as business is conducted as mentioned above. This second-class 'ghetto' of humans and Deep Imaskari is never allowed to grow large, but the city recognizes the value of these noncitizens as scapegoats or sacrificial lambs.
NOTE: Bards, sorcerers, and the practioners of divine magic are also considered to be of second-class status, though drow of these classes may be actual citizens within the City of Dark Weavings all the same. The dark elves of Sshamath view power that occurs naturally or because of service to another creature as inferior to power won through personal achievement.

Not valued no, but 7therealm does have a good idea there, no? With both an importance and a deterrent, they could have managed such. . . and it would force dwarves and drow not to fight each other.

And both factions being very cautious about the settlement at least. (They could invade in 10 years time, with dwarven and elven lifespans being so long, but we would probably not notice that. . . or it would be an event to look forward to.)

Before you read on, I'm trying to be constructive here, so don't take it the wrong way please

My worries are the following:

- Powerful wards that scare drow off would automatically draw wizards from Sshamath like flies to lay their hands on those wards and know their secrets. Because such knowledge would mean a boost of power for the first wizard to lay their hands on that secret.

- The wizard would be well prepared given the most crafty ones make it to the top, so hardly a chance the settlement would survive long. 10 years? I would give it 3 months at most. This is how easy a snatch of a power that would be.

"Who is guarding it? Gnomes?! Assemble the warriors!".

- With such a prize in their hands, shadow weave would become less of a secret all of the sudden.

- This would work, only if the settlement would be completely remote/secluded IMHO, no trade, visitors, no knowledge on it etc.

I would support a less of a fancy idea. The wizards of Sshamath would not be drawn to a settlement they would consider worthless. The occasional bands of raiders would happen, yes but those would be youngsters trying to prove themselves or slavers, more than a full blown invasion of wizards wanting to learn secrets.

You make a core zone for gnomes only - a stronghold of a sort, while the outsiders would have to stick to the outskirts and the marketplace, perhaps also a tavern. If there is trouble in there, crossbows fire. If there is a raid, the market acts as a buffer and visitors are automatically caught in the defence of the city.

Those are my thoughts.

this is kinda the rp background for the settlement is just an idea, so any thoughts on it would be appreciated

Svirfneblin Village has magical wards of some sort that would "scare" off drow and or dwarves from conquering it for a time being. (some sharran relic that the dark ones used, perhaps a ward that sends hostiles to some shadow plane that they can use on command. The Svirfneblin Village found out the secrets of the device and ultise it to protect their village.

From my point of view: this is NEVER going to happen, sorry. Sharran relics are NEVER left behind when someone evacuates, save for extraordinary reasons. And even then, they tend to be extremely well hidden, extremely well protected, and have the tendency to make their wielders go nuts unless they know how to tap from the Shadow Weaven.

I remember running an event for Sharrans in which they actually had to recover an ancient, abandoned relic...better if I avoid detailing the ordeals I put them through.

You could always say "well, alright, but what happens, were someone to accidentally find one?".

The answer is: in that case, Momma Shar takes it personal and sends as many of her cronies after that relic as she can, until the relic has been recovered and all of its discoverers are dead.

What if the Sharrans fail? Then momma Shar simply cuts off the relic from the Shadow Weave from preventing other people from learning her secrets.

There is a reason for the details of Sharran worship amongst other faiths being extremely sparse...only the Selunites (for obvious reasons) know a bit about her dogma, church organization, rituals and lore, and even they only possesses fragmented knowledge. Try figuring out why...

Servin wrote:I would support a less of a fancy idea. The wizards of Sshamath would not be drawn to a settlement they would consider worthless. The occasional bands of raiders would happen, yes but those would be youngsters trying to prove themselves or slavers, more than a full blown invasion of wizards wanting to learn secrets.

You make a core zone for gnomes only - a stronghold of a sort, while the outsiders would have to stick to the outskirts and the marketplace, perhaps also a tavern. If there is trouble in there, crossbows fire. If there is a raid, the market acts as a buffer and visitors are automatically caught in the defence of the city.

Those are my thoughts.

Why not? It would be another outpost, and that is all that really matters. The why's and how's isn't really important, so long as they make sense in one form or another. Strong magic or just not very important. . . it matters very little for players that just want to play. =)

The way I see it, the best way a svirf settlement has to survive is to look as pathetic, worthless and defenseless as conceivable, without actually having to be. Does anyone remember the svirf settlement in BG2: ToB?