Underdark General Discussion Thread

[Lambert]

I think the main issue about starting a Gnome town is gathering deep gnomes for consistent roleplay, establishing an organization akin to a guild, and having superior rp for over a year. Then you can ask an area designer, with DM approval, for a town area in the UD for your race.

To get started simply organize in game meetings with deep gnomes, set up a government or leadership council, and engage in regular roleplay.

[Empoweredfan]

That, could prove a problem. . .

Gnome players haven't the best of records for consistent RP. . . the oppressive setting usually driving them off.

And a pathetic settlement would be a very poor place to have neutral RP happen. Especially if that is what it is suppose to be.

[Servin]

The way I see it, the best way a svirf settlement has to survive is to look as pathetic, worthless and defenseless as conceivable, without actually having to be. Does anyone remember the svirf settlement in BG2: ToB?

Precisely! If you put fancy wards, magic, artifacts, thingamajigs all you're doing is attracting raiders, far more powerful than any defence put up by a small settlement. It's dangling a tasty carrot in front of noses of any raiders.

ETA:

Gnome players haven't the best of records for consistent RP. . . the oppressive setting usually driving them off.

Underdark is an oppressive setting by default.

[Empoweredfan]

I am not debating the fact, only pointing out that it isn't much fertile ground for Gnome characters to stay on for long. We used to have bands of them roaming around, but that time seems long past. I've only seen Illithid's character lately, but there could be more.

[Rainbow Prism]

Pathetic deep gnome settlements? What are you talking about?

Most often, svirfneblin settlements are hidden very well, are defended by armed patrols and some of them are enhanced by gnomes capable of summoning earth elementals. Enough to make mincemeat of at least half of would-be raiders.

If you are talking about the BG2 game, note that it might look not too cool, but they were not aiming for functionality. Plus, that particular settlement was attacked from several sides, not to mention demon in one of their tunnels. Not exactly best way to look at majority of settlements.

Deep gnomes' majority are elusive. If some players did not get it, it does not mean all NPCs must be looked in the same light. It's not like average surface elf NPC is a powerbuilding itchy-handed falchion wielding Warhammertype-racist.

Summarizing, I do not see reason for independent gnome community to be 'pathetic'. If it is pathetic, it should not be even mentioned outside of whatever event zones DMs create them in.

Actually, if you still think that they must be pathetic, give them back their Slippery Defense. Then you will remember why exactly drow vs svirfneblin fights are so bloody.

[Empoweredfan]

Slightly off topic now. . . we were talking about a small place that could work as neutral ground, yes?

A place to connect surface dwarves with the UD, without giving anyone a chance to go further on? I like Servin's idea, with the keep and all. . . but in all honesty, it could be in the belly of a monster for all I care, and any hostile attempts will fill the area with digestive acid, or just the one causing trouble to take the fall.

There is a lot of things that will speak against this, so we should focus on finding ways to make it work. =)

[DM Asgorath]

The way I see it, the best way a svirf settlement has to survive is to look as pathetic, worthless and defenseless as conceivable, without actually having to be. Does anyone remember the svirf settlement in BG2: ToB?

[Servin]

Oh Richard...

Define pathetic.

Rubble littering the pathways - is pathetic.
Crumbling walls of a keep - are pathetic.
Patchy merchant tents in some area that was meant to be a market - are pathetic.
A few gnome crossbowmen perched behind a wall of a keep, the only thing keeping this place together - is also pathetic.

But it works!

Oh you want gnomes skilled enough to summon earth elementals in a keep known to the public and not hidden that's meant to be a buffer point, surrounded by surface dwarves and drow alike eh? Good luck. They would make valuable slaves for all I know.

Go ahead and give them back slippery defence for all I care. The numbers fighting on two fronts will clearly not be in their favour, but prove me wrong and let's create something bigger to Sshamath to hold both fronts off and pretend sourcebooks never mentioned it because it was so well hidden everyone knew about it.

[Empoweredfan]

The way I see it, the best way a svirf settlement has to survive is to look as pathetic, worthless and defenseless as conceivable, without actually having to be. Does anyone remember the svirf settlement in BG2: ToB?

What do you suggest? =)

[DM Asgorath]

The way I see it, the best way a svirf settlement has to survive is to look as pathetic, worthless and defenseless as conceivable, without actually having to be. Does anyone remember the svirf settlement in BG2: ToB?

What do you suggest? =)

Let's take a look at Gandalf to better explain what I mean...Gandalf looks like a wizened, 70 years older with some difficulties at walking without a staff to support himself. At first glance, you wouldn't really deem him capable of some serious ass-kicking, right?

Then you are told that he is a wizard, and a pretty capable one at that. At which point, you start wondering what could he be capable of doing when push comes to shove.

Svirfs are exactly that. They can't afford the luxury of showing their strength, their best bet is to give an illusion of defenselessness to their settlements to drows, whilst doing their best at keeping said settlements well hidden, and maintaining efficient detachments of wizards, priests of Callarduran, and breach gnomes to protect their turf, whilst also avoid having anything that the drows could crave or covet, like say, magical wards or special artefacts.

That way drows don't really know what to really expect from them and thus generally avoid taking risks by razing their settlements, because in the end, it is simply inconvenient from an economic perspective to do so. And those who do take risks quickly find out that the deep gnomes are capable of putting up quite a fight.

[Lambert]

Well you know, deep gnomes are dangerous, and like it was said, can summon earth elementals, which are not chump change. They are resilient and resourceful enough to have settlements and cities. They do rely on stealth, hidden doors and tunnels, and such primarily, but they also have powerful magics, skilled warriors, and an organized stable society.

Maybe it is time to expand the UD a little, perhaps making a snirvneblin settlement should start as roleplay of snirvneblin miners visiting the area providing valuable gems, led by a powerful illuisionist who shares tomes and spells with the city. From there they can set up there own settlement, hidden away, and build it up. Just get 2 leaders to organize meetings in game once every 2 week, get the role play going, and stuff will fall together. It helps a great deal to have 1 dedicated DM who is friendly to the cause and does not feel the need to be overly controlling or dogmatic, but supportive and directive, to guide the development of the rp, and to promote a friendly and kind atmosphere.

The key is for everyone to be polite and respectful to each other. Those conditions being met, and it will work just fine.

If I was a gnome illusionist leader, I would get in with the Charnav, and help the Shhamath secret police by being informers and allies. There are many ways to skin a cat.

[Broham2]

When looking at the activity of other UD guilds currently, it seems a rather tall order to suggest that some other nebulous group of RPers are just going to randomly appear to want to create one and deal with the IC and OOC issues associated with it.

[Lambert]

Very true and starting and developing a faction takes a lot if work and patience.


Maybe with the other factions sleeping it is an opportune time for deep gnomes to slip in.

Got to keep it positive and friendly though ooc.

[Lambert]

So I was wondering.

Why is the Underdark so quiet? No players there practically.

Is there anything I can do to help make it better as a player? What problems in the past have arisen to create such a quiet place?

Sshamath has to be one of the nicest UD areas I've seen in a server, yet it is so quiet.

Lam

[Broham2]

I haven’t played down there in ages, but from the sounds of things there are at least a handful of folk who do.. and a DM that is active (though working the Lolth stuff, which may seem different in Sshamath).

That said, the UD here has been like that for a long time, man. Even in its heyday it wasn’t the most populous of places. It is certainly not because it is lacking in artistic details or great lore, that is for sure. Our builders have crafted an awesome UD.

But the nature of the RP is dark, clique-ish, oppressive, and hostile (all perfectly IC, I agree). It makes me almost clausterphobic to play there for long periods of time (and I do have a decent leveled wizard that I played for a while down yonder). Those two thing, combined with some of the RP-nazi OOC stuff that has taken place (y’all Undarkians love your lore) makes it not the most hospitable place on the server, you know? When a new player (or even an old stinky vet like me) looks at the scry and sees 60 people up top and 5 down below, it is an easy decision to make if I want to RP. Finding those 5 in the UD is nigh impossible unless you plan it, and then hoping they aren’t 2 lolthites, a vhaerunian, a gnome, and an Elistraaen is a tall order.

I guess that is why I think adding another “center” would do more harm than good. The playerbase is few, the lines in the sand are deep, and the playstyle appeals to a niche type of player (and always has).

I won’t touch on what I would do with the UD because I respect those of you who love it; but I think time has told the story of how it goes down there and hoping to see change may be hoping for a lot.