Spell / Scroll / Feat Bugs

[Endelyon]

Only summons that act as "dominated monsters" (see that little purple debuff on them) will allow you to have multiple henchmen like this.

Now, what you CAN do is have an "old school" summon (animal companion, familiar, w/e) out as well as some of these dominated ones, too.. So effectively you can do this with any summon, you just can't have two old-style ones at once.

[Steve]

Now, what you CAN do is have an "old school" summon (animal companion, familiar, w/e) out as well as some of these dominated ones.

Many of us have requested that Thaumaturgist Planar Cohorts can occupy the "old school" summon slot, like they did in the original implementation of Thaumaturgist PrC.

[Snarfy]

Elephant in the room time! So, about lunge and pommel strike:

1. Has anyone else noticed how exploitable these feats are?
... which leads me to...
2. Why haven't these feats been removed yet?

Seriously, we need to talk about how ridiculously overpowered these feats can be.

Here's an example of how these feats benefited a few of my characters:

I was tooling around with a Fighter/Dervish/Rogue/Tempest for a while, and at the level 16-19 range he was having troubles with the wyverns. By applying the use of lunge and pommel strike, and thanks to all the bonus attacks/sneak attacks gained from my invisible clone spawn, I went from, roughly, getting knocked around to 50% health or less, to 100% survivability. When these feats first went in I also tried them on a character with heavy sneak dice... and the results were ridiculous.

Never mind that they look great when enabled(and they do, I'll admit), but these feats, in addition to spawning those annoying clones everywhere(at least I'm pretty sure they do) basically will double or even triple damage output for certain builds. The question I have here, considering the absurd amount of damage potential gained with their use, is: how is the use of feats that double or triple damage output not considered some sort of exploit?

[Snarfy]

Hidden: show

Elephant in the room time! So, about lunge and pommel strike:

1. Has anyone else noticed how exploitable these feats are?
... which leads me to...
2. Why haven't these feats been removed yet?

Seriously, we need to talk about how ridiculously overpowered these feats can be.

Here's an example of how these feats benefited a few of my characters:

I was tooling around with a Fighter/Dervish/Rogue/Tempest for a while, and at the level 16-19 range he was having troubles with the wyverns. By applying the use of lunge and pommel strike, and thanks to all the bonus attacks/sneak attacks gained from my invisible clone spawn, I went from, roughly, getting knocked around to 50% health or less, to 100% survivability. When these feats first went in I also tried them on a character with heavy sneak dice... and the results were ridiculous.

Never mind that they look great when enabled(and they do, I'll admit), but these feats, in addition to spawning those annoying clones everywhere(at least I'm pretty sure they do) basically will double or even triple damage output for certain builds. The question I have here, considering the absurd amount of damage potential gained with their use, is: how is the use of feats that double or triple damage output not considered some sort of exploit?

*listens to the crickets chirp*

Really??... Alright. Here's what kind of damage potential I'm talking about with Lunge alone.

When used by a high sneak attack dice character, and using lunge after an expose weakness from stealth, the combat log looks like this:



1st flurry damage done by my PC: 241 + 10(either from bleed damage from expose or a regular hit) = 251

After the lunge takes place, you'll notice that 4 more attacks connected. However, the giant died after the first 3 "lunge" attacks, and after taking an additional 180 sneak attack damage. (** - lets say for arguments sake that the 4th attack would have landed 60 damage as well)

The problem with this additional 180 damage(and potentially more, if the giant had more HP) is that none of it was done by my character.

It was done by the doppleganger. Yes, you read that right, 180 HP damage, free of charge, as my PC was well out of stealth, in plain sight, and facing the giant head on. Which basically means he was incapable of performing these bonus sneak attacks.

251 + 180 (+60**) = 431 damage (potentially 490**)in 2 rounds... with Lunge alone.

Do I have anyones attention yet?

And do I even have to mention the kind of damage that could additionally be inflicted with another HiPS/Expose/Pommel Strike(which would generate even more free doppleganger-sneak-attack damage)?

[Displacer]

Yeah, I just saw this from a redirect Snarfy put on another page.
He is absolutely right, this is a terrible exploit regarding pummel and lunge.

I used them at first on a Fighter Rogue Assassin build and saw exactly what Snarfy is seeing. I haven't used it in months, but I think the cool down time was even wonky.
Don't use it anymore, people in general shouldn't use them and perhaps they should be killed

edit: the Feats, not the people

[Snarfy]

Don't use it anymore, people in general shouldn't use them and perhaps they should be killed

edit: the Feats, not the people

Both I say!

I'll wager the reason no-one says crap about this is all the free damage they're getting. Talk about having your cake and eating it too.

Anyways, let's see how my Fighter/WM/Bodyguard did:

Hidden: show

Hidden: show

The scene: I ran my toon into a pack of 5 giants and a blink dog(the blink dog died before I attempted to test lunge)

The slaughter(*note - PC damage shows up with a blue name, doppleganger in purple):
Giant #1 - Dead after taking: 193 "Legit" damage from my PC.
Giant #2 - Dead after taking: 27 "Legit" damage from PC, + 202 doppleganger lunge damage.
Giant #3 - Dead after taking: 0 "Legit"(as in ZERO) damage from PC, + 183 doppleganger pommel-strike damage.
Giant #4 - Dead after taking: 24 "Legit" damage from PC, + 143 doppleganger pommel-strike damage.
Giant #5 - Dead after taking 24 "Legit" damage from PC, + 204 doppleganger pommel-strike damage.

Final score VS 5 giants:

Legitimate PC damage: 268
Illigitimate doppleganger-Lunge/Pommel-strike damage: 732.

I should note that this fight, versus 5 giants and a blink dog, was over in approximately 15 seconds. My PC was down about 33% health.

What's wrong with this picture? (pssst, these feats are the clinical definition of an "exploit")

Seriously.

[Valefort]

Do it the Naruto way and type Kage bunshin no jutsu before using those please.

[Steve]

I believe the Doppleganger, the invisible summons that your PC dominates, is what provides the damage from these custom feats. It is, at least, how Sudden Willow Strike is possible to make work.

However, the doppleganger shouldn't be able to make sneak attack damage, or any other DMG except what is offered by any particular Feat.

I concur with Snarfman that there is unintentional "exploitive" aspects to how Custom Feats work. Is there a fix for them? Only Rasael can probably say.

It would be a great pity to have to roll back these additions, but maybe it is for the best...and the only solution.

[Snarfy]

However, the doppleganger shouldn't be able to make sneak attack damage, or any other DMG except what is offered by any particular Feat.

If I'm not mistaken, the doppleganger also has all of your characters feats and, when spawned, gives your character a flanking bonus. So, if it doesn't get the free damage, your PC certainly will. As you can see, my fighters doppleganger was landing the full critical damage that my character is able to do.

[Steve]

However, the doppleganger shouldn't be able to make sneak attack damage, or any other DMG except what is offered by any particular Feat.

If I'm not mistaken, the doppleganger also has all of your characters feats and, when spawned, gives your character a flanking bonus. So, if it doesn't get the free damage, your PC certainly will. As you can see, my fighters doppleganger was landing the full critical damage that my character is able to do.

Yes, it is a problem. These custom feats essentially spawn a invisible copy of your PC, from what I can tell. It may be, or at least thought to be, a limited or Feat-stripped version of your own PC, but that is not what seems to be happening.

While I absolutely adore my Sudden Willow Strike feat on my monk, I get all itchy inside whenever it "works." The custom melee feats are cool to have, but not if they just slaughterhouse everything.

[Theodore01]

...or lagging the entire server performance

[Pimple]

I just tried to summon a celestial dire bear with the spell Greater Planar Binding. The third time I actually got one.

[Theodore01]

Shadow druids in Cloakwood Central are casting a cold spell, which causes a "Bad Strref " on the the char. (Same with Frostmystics)

[Wyatt]

I'm not sure if intentional or not but I am finding that the bigby's spells are lasting MUCH longer than they used to when cast by monsters on my characters. As a pure strength barbarian I am failing the strength check on Bigby's Forceful Hand about 75% to 90% of the time and then I find myself sitting around waiting for upwards of 5 minutes for this spell to wear off. This seems a bit excessive for something that I have no recourse against. Often times the monster that cast it has despawned by the time it has finished its duration.

[Theodore01]

Epic Inspiration
Prerequisitie: CHA 25, Perform 30, bardic music
Your art has reached new heights, you add +1 to all your bardic inspiration impact(s) and you may blend slowing and jarring inspiration into all the rest of your repertoire

Sadly the part about slowing and jarring is not working at all.

And the way it is implemented (as you can have 3 active inspirations (slowing and jarring) with the feat) makes it cumbersome to switch inspirations, as you have to deactivate all before switching to a new desired one.