Lore Assistance

[Catam]

Hide in Plain Sight (Su): A shadowdancer can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow.

HiPS says "some sort of shadow" per the DMG, but I'm leaning towards no. Wouldn't it be easier to hide in Hoihe's shadow being made by the sun or moon?

[Elthan]

Can shadow dancers hide in a sorcerer's/Wizard's Shadow Shield, or other illusion spells that conjure up Shadowstuff?

From my understanding, Shadow shield conjures up shadowstuff from the Plane of Shadows (I prefer calling it "shadow realm", meh) to then cloak themselves in, which absorbs the majority of impacts (or at least redirects it to the parallel plane) [the DR], absorbs all negative energy effects/redirects it to the parallel plane [The Immunities], the shadow also acts as a hard shield [natural shield].

Can it also act like a shadow where a SD can hide in?

It came up ICly when Hoihe demonstrated Shadow Shield to a Shadowdancer, and I'm not sure whether it'd work or not. Hoihe's reply was : "While I think technically it might work, considering my excellent ability to control my spells.. it's too dangerous." Or, at least something like that.

if SD's can absorb that essance by chance somehow won't they become Netherese Shades?

[Catam]

if SD's can absorb that essance by chance somehow won't they become Netherese Shades?

Only after 1372

[Simian]

Can shadow dancers hide in a sorcerer's/Wizard's Shadow Shield, or other illusion spells that conjure up Shadowstuff?

Shadowdancers do not hide in shadows per se. They just use them somehow to hide in plain sight. This ability is a supernatural ability, so you can explain the modus operandi with pretty much whatever.

Personally, I prefer to have shadowdancers just 'pinch a shadow,' and spin it around as if it were a gigantic piece of cloth.



After all, they are called shadowdancers for a reason...

So, once again. Shadowdancers do not hide in the shadows, they just use them to dissappear in plain sight. And if the arcanists spells cause shadows, the shadowdancer can use them.

[WeWhoEat]

Shadowdancers can hide in a shadow, yes, but when they move away from the shadow, they can no longer hide without something to hide behind, concealment, or another nearby shadow.

The mistake that NWN/NWN2 leads people to is thinking of Hiding as a mode, when really it is move actions and opposed checks. If presented with a well-lit road filled with guards and a shadow on one side, the situation is not "I am near a shadow and thus begin hiding, now I walk across the well-lit shadowless coverless road while still hiding." Rather, it is "I am near a shadow, so I am hiding and the guards cannot see me. I move away from the shadow, so I can no longer hide from the guards unless I move to another shadow or behind some cover." You are fine hiding in the shadows, or hiding while moving around the shadows, so long as you stay within 10 feet of a shadow. Otherwise, you need to either be behind the enemy so they cannot see you, or be behind some cover or with some concealment.

Hiding is a move action or part of a move action. You make your hide check either while moving as a part of a move action, or stationary as a move action. When the time comes for you to take your move action and do your hide check, if you are NOT within 10 feet of a shadow, you cannot hide with Hide in Plain Sight. This means that anybody looking in your direction can see you just fine, since you cannot normally hide while being observed, and being more than 10 feet away from a shadow disables your HiPS.

If you start your move action more then ten feet away from the shadow, you cannot be hidden while observed, even if you were hidden by a shadow the previous turn.

Now, if you are looking for a way to escape from an isolated patch of shadow, or move from one shadow to another despite the shadowless space between, you use Shadow Jump.

As for spells, I would think that if a spell causes "a shadow", you can hide in in that shadow, so long as it persists. However, I am not so sure that "a shadow" and "shadowstuff" are the same thing. Otherwise, you could hide in the illusions created by a Greater Shadow Conjuration, or any other spell of the Subschool Shadow.

[Simian]

So the question is, can you hide in plain sight while standing here:



The answer is yes. If you look at the edges of those stones, bingo, shadows. Unfortunately the manuals do not define either the quality nor the quantity of the required shadow. The only conditions are that it is a shadow, and not your own. Hence, all shadows work from a single blade of grass to that of a mountain.

[WeWhoEat]

Sure, if you want to get absurd. For that matter, the atmosphere blocks a small amount of the light of the sun, and could be said to be casting a shadow across all of the earth. Or, dust particles and bits of pollen cast very small shadows all over the place.

Distinctions like this are where DMs are supposed to step in and finish fleshing out the description of the ability. Is there any chance we could get a ruling from above on this?

[Elthan]

So the question is, can you hide in plain sight while standing here:



The answer is yes. If you look at the edges of those stones, bingo, shadows. Unfortunately the manuals do not define either the quality nor the quantity of the required shadow. The only conditions are that it is a shadow, and not your own. Hence, all shadows work from a single blade of grass to that of a mountain.

Isn't it stretching the lore to the point of godmoding that a single level in a prc grants such a reality altering effect?

[Hoihe]

So the question is, can you hide in plain sight while standing here:



The answer is yes. If you look at the edges of those stones, bingo, shadows. Unfortunately the manuals do not define either the quality nor the quantity of the required shadow. The only conditions are that it is a shadow, and not your own. Hence, all shadows work from a single blade of grass to that of a mountain.

Isn't it stretching the lore to the point of godmoding that a single level in a prc grants such a reality altering effect?

A PRC that requires 19 dexterity as a base, and high skills in stealth.

AMs have even more power with just the first level as per Lore.

[Elthan]

So the question is, can you hide in plain sight while standing here:



The answer is yes. If you look at the edges of those stones, bingo, shadows. Unfortunately the manuals do not define either the quality nor the quantity of the required shadow. The only conditions are that it is a shadow, and not your own. Hence, all shadows work from a single blade of grass to that of a mountain.

Isn't it stretching the lore to the point of godmoding that a single level in a prc grants such a reality altering effect?

A PRC that requires 19 dexterity as a base, and high skills in stealth.

AMs have even more power with just the first level as per Lore.

The 19 dex is a bgtscc thing isn't it? i admit i didn't look it up here

Isn't AM harder to acquire though?

[Xanfyrst]

It's now that I tell a "Yo mama"-joke?

[Hoihe]

Isn't it stretching the lore to the point of godmoding that a single level in a prc grants such a reality altering effect?

A PRC that requires 19 dexterity as a base, and high skills in stealth.

AMs have even more power with just the first level as per Lore.

The 19 dex is a bgtscc thing isn't it? i admit i didn't look it up here

Isn't AM harder to acquire though?

And also, this isn't really that much reality altering..

A mage can turn invisible by level 3, an assassin can do it as well using his limited spellbook!

What shadow dancers/level 8 assassins gain is that they don't need magic to do it. At least, I think.

[Simian]

Not to mention how the Prestige Class requirements are even steeper in PnP.

And really, is it really all that farfetched when you have mages, clerics and dragons running about tossing magic? And remember, the ability to hide in plain sight is supernatural.

Here is a picture of another HiPS free zone:

Distinctions like this are where DMs are supposed to step in and finish fleshing out the description of the ability. Is there any chance we could get a ruling from above on this?

Now, were you playing PnP, a Dungeon Master could suggest some homebrewed rules.

But in NWN2? Where majority of the players dungeon masters included play the game with all manner of shadows turned off, or limited in their amount? (Not mention that you really have to look for a spot that wouldn't be 10 feet away from a shadow on this server.)

So, what would be the ruling be like? If you use HiPS, you must turn on the in game shadows and only use the ability when you are in range? Good luck enforcing that.

And as much as it might violate your view of homebrewed rules, NWN2 got HiPS right.

[Hoihe]

If that would happen.. all my Hipsters would end up RCRed..

Shadows cause my Video card to melt T.T.

Not to mention how the Prestige Class requirements are even steeper in PnP.

And really, is it really all that farfetched when you have mages, clerics and dragons running about tossing magic? And remember, the ability to hide in plain sight is supernatural.

Here is a picture of another HiPS free zone:

Distinctions like this are where DMs are supposed to step in and finish fleshing out the description of the ability. Is there any chance we could get a ruling from above on this?

Now, were you playing PnP, a Dungeon Master could suggest some homebrewed rules.

But in NWN2? Where majority of the players dungeon masters included play the game with all manner of shadows turned off, or limited in their amount? (Not mention that you really have to look for a spot that wouldn't be 10 feet away from a shadow on this server.)

So, what would be the ruling be like? If you use HiPS, you must turn on the in game shadows and only use the ability when you are in range? Good luck enforcing that.

And as much as it might violate your view of homebrewed rules, NWN2 got HiPS right.

[Xanfyrst]

The Assassin's Creed games shows how to hide in plain sight. (make yourself 'invisible' by mending in with the surroundings/crowds)