Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Steve wrote:

chad878262 wrote:F12/WoD10/OWD5/BG3- EDM with BG aura to help OWD have an effective DC of 34, all the fighter feats with bonus ab/ damage/ dr from OWD and WoD.

Yeah, a build like this just wins with having OWD.

But really...imagine ALL the options, together. Like, a group of different builds with OWD! These OWD debuffs STACK on mobs and PCs in PvP...

...what is an Orc if not a reflection of his Horde!!!

^^^^^gets it.

No the debuffs don't stack for 2 OWDs (once again same as bards there).

No but it's a lot of users of orders to charge...

Yes, frankly this PRC is much more susceptible to be nerfed than the contrary imo.

Valefort wrote:No the debuffs don't stack for 2 OWDs (once again same as bards there).

So, you're saying that if a single mob encountered 2 OWD with War March active, they would never experience more that -2 AB/-2dmg/-2 saves?

Because wouldn't a single mob have to Save against 2 independent Inspire Fears?

I wasn't assuming Battle Rhythm would stack, but like Expose Weakness negative AC stacking, the debuffs would stack.

Valefort wrote:Yes, frankly this PRC is much more susceptible to be nerfed than the contrary imo.

ok lets say the "orders to charge" gives a reason to have variable numbers to the perform and intim skill. the O2C acts as follows. this would make for a

Orders to Charge: At 4th level a War Drummer is able to signal the charge in a particularly enthralling way. The nearby allies gain bonuses depending upon intimidation skill.

1-10: 20% movement speed as well as the benefits of furious charger
11-20: 25% movement speed as well as the benefits of furious charger and dire charge.
21-30: 30% movement speed, +1 Dodge AC as well as the benefits of furious charger and dire charge
31+: 35% movement speed, +1 Dodge AC, Magic DR x/- where x= perform ranks/6 as well as the benefits furious charger and dire charge

bonus lasts for 1rd per perform ranks/2
cooldown= 4 mins

this gives a nice boost to the secondary ability if built for it and really sets apart those that build for the intention of being a focused OWD. this also slightly nerfs ones who are just building with the war march in mind. it is the primary feat after all.

@steve. I am not talking about PvP building. I was trying to point out that PvP building is a waste of time with OWD. the fear dc will either work or it wont in PvP no matter the DC. in PvP you have a whole different set of criteria you want to look at and save vs fear that is not an instakill is possibly the lowest on that list. I know that the team doesn't look at that stuff unless it becomes a problem or they foresee one. not on their radar and not on mine either.

Steve wrote:

Valefort wrote:No the debuffs don't stack for 2 OWDs (once again same as bards there).

So, you're saying that if a single mob encountered 2 OWD with War March active, they would never experience more that -2 AB/-2dmg/-2 saves?

Because wouldn't a single mob have to Save against 2 independent Inspire Fears?

I wasn't assuming Battle Rhythm would stack, but like Expose Weakness negative AC stacking, the debuffs would stack.

i think this is all starting to come together for steve. one OWD song per war band. so who to pick???? doesn't matter so why RP it.

I don't mind sclaing the orders to charge with the perform skill but it won't go higher than what it is now.

aaron22 wrote: @steve. I am not talking about PvP building. I was trying to point out that PvP building is a waste of time with OWD.

So...OWD is not a waste of time, then?

Even if War March affects do not stack, they still provide an excellent buff to the Party, and a quality debuff to enemies in medium range. OWD also provides 5 pts to Will Saves, which is great for the OWD build, especially if your building a melee/fighter type.

Personally, I think that something about OWD should stack, if there are multiple "drummers," together in a group. That just makes a whole boat load of sense, since the intensity of their exponential sound and rhythm, is literal energy...and that being a magic song energy, should stack.

Now, what should stack at the moment is 1 round saves against Inspire Fear, so if there are 5 OWDs, then a mob should save 5 times a round against Inspire Fear...which means definitely, that mob is going to Fail and receive a debuff each round no matter what (cheers to the screwed up NWN2 engine rolls!!).

But like Circle Magic, the OWD should have or get some synergy to make multiple drummers working together in unison to provide something even more wicked, be it a higher buff or a intenser debuff.

consider that if there are multiple OWD's the enemies will have to save against each one. While the effects don't stack one failed save applies the debuff. Ever seen an assassin with 5 death attacks/ round? The DC may be low (far lower than 32!), but when you make an enemy roll 5 saving throws they are that much more likely to get a low roll. Get 5 OWDs together and my guess is every enemy will have the penalties apply every round.

So yes, there is a benefit to multiple war drummers.

Edit: or what Steve said...

Furthermore...while OWD Battle Rhythm doesn't stack with Inspire Courage, will it work concurrently with any other Bard Inspirations?

For example, a Bard 25 / OWD 5 could have Inspire Defense +6 up and Battle Rhythm +2s up, concurrently? That would be a pretty great Party support build, right? Right?!?

Valefort wrote:I don't mind sclaing the orders to charge with the perform skill but it won't go higher than what it is now.

you see what it would take to get the max out of O2C? that is a crazy investment. oh well. i can totally be ok with this.

Steve wrote:So...OWD is not a waste of time, then?

@steve. no that is not what i was saying. with the numbers they present there is no point to adjusting your skill ranks because in PvP you would only count on your war march bonuses and orders bonuses. those are static and any "building" for the DC check on the debuff portion of war march is useless and/or unnecessary.

You can't make that bard 25/OWD 5 build, OWD requires you to NOT be a bard.

Valefort wrote:You can't make that bard 25/OWD 5 build, OWD requires you to NOT be a bard.

But it doesn't say that on the OP!!!

Steve wrote:Furthermore...while OWD Battle Rhythm doesn't stack with Inspire Courage, will it work concurrently with any other Bard Inspirations?

For example, a Bard 25 / OWD 5 could have Inspire Defense +6 up and Battle Rhythm +2s up, concurrently? That would be a pretty great Party support build, right? Right?!?

that would be game breaking steve.

a whole server full of B25/OWD5.
Gruumsh's threat comes to fruition.