Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

... By wearing a very noticeable white hoodie.

Montaron Alagondar wrote:... By wearing a very noticeable white hoodie.

Not in ACI!

The priests are very similiar.. easy to blend with them!

And in AC:B you can wear nobles' clothing.


And it's difficult to notice someone in a massive crowd, no matter what they wear, if they are in the middle.

It is not a matter of settings or anything like that, but a matter of RP. Nothing is going to stop Shadowdancers from doing exactly what they do now mechanically, but some people also like to RP, Simian, and those RPers would likely enjoy knowing more detail about their abilities. Plus, for things like DM events where a single Shadowdancer is trying something that might be RP-based.

Montaron Alagondar wrote: And as much as it might violate your view of homebrewed rules, NWN2 got HiPS right.

dandwiki wrote: Hide in Plain Sight
You can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as you are within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, you can hide yourself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. You cannot, however, hide in your own shadow. You must take a -40 penalty to your hide check to do this. If you take a -80 penalty to your hide check you may use the Hide skill even while being observed regardless of your environment.

NWN2 Mechanically allows SD's to hide regardless of anything - How did it get it right?

The RP also suffers from this:
How many people actually role play being shadow dancers? (i've seen one out of hundreds)

dandwiki wrote: Hide in Plain Sight
You can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as you are within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, you can hide yourself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. You cannot, however, hide in your own shadow. You must take a -40 penalty to your hide check to do this. If you take a -80 penalty to your hide check you may use the Hide skill even while being observed regardless of your environment.

Actually, everything after the words "you cannot hide in your own shadow" is not official, but rather homebrew.

Still, yes, NWN2 and NWN1 got the Shadowdancer's Hide in Plain Sight wrong. And Simian, there is no need to be petty, either. It is not my view of homebrewed rules, but information straight from the sourcebooks. I can send you PDFs of the sourcebooks if you want, might help you in future threads to be able to see what the actual rule-books say.

WeWhoEat wrote: Still, yes, NWN2 and NWN1 got the Shadowdancer's Hide in Plain Sight wrong. And Simian, there is no need to be petty, either. It is not my view of homebrewed rules, but information straight from the sourcebooks. I can send you PDFs of the sourcebooks if you want, might help you in future threads to be able to see what the actual rule-books say.

I'm curious too - PM me them as well (files or book name and page).

Elthan wrote:

WeWhoEat wrote: Still, yes, NWN2 and NWN1 got the Shadowdancer's Hide in Plain Sight wrong. And Simian, there is no need to be petty, either. It is not my view of homebrewed rules, but information straight from the sourcebooks. I can send you PDFs of the sourcebooks if you want, might help you in future threads to be able to see what the actual rule-books say.

I'm curious too - PM me them as well (files or book name and page).

This page from Wizards of the Coast explains how Hiding is a move action, or part of a move action.
All about Movement, Part Three

As for the sourcebooks, I think Catam has a link somewhere that lets you download like every book known to humanity. The two books in specific you want are the Player's Handbook, which describes the functioning of Hide and Move Silent, while the Dungeon Master's Guide has the information on Shadowdancers.

WeWhoEat wrote:It is not a matter of settings or anything like that, but a matter of RP. Nothing is going to stop Shadowdancers from doing exactly what they do now mechanically, but some people also like to RP, Simian, and those RPers would likely enjoy knowing more detail about their abilities. Plus, for things like DM events where a single Shadowdancer is trying something that might be RP-based.

And the unfortunate fact is, this all there is to know about the details:

Hide in Plain Sight (Su)
A shadowdancer can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow.

If you want to claim that your Shadowdancer can only hide while standing directly on a shadow, which you've done few times years ago, it is alright as long as we are only speaking of YOUR shadowdancer. Expecting others to follow your fallacy is just stupid.

And it is not as if the topic is difficult at all from role-playing perspective. A level one Shadowdancer or a level eight Assassin can hide in plain sight. If your hiding ability is high enough, you remain hidden. If your ability to move silently is high enough, you can move silently. That is all there is. After all, it is not as if anyone expects you to explain the specific details on how a wizard turns a handfull of guano into an exploding ball of fire. ( The answer is magic. )

And if there is someone going around asking for unnecessary amount of details, just retort back with a "TRADE SECRET."

Montaron Alagondar wrote: If you want to claim that your Shadowdancer can only hide while standing directly on a shadow, which you've done few times years ago, it is alright as long as we are only speaking of YOUR shadowdancer. Expecting others to follow your fallacy is just stupid.

Except that I have never played a Shadowdancer. I have never even played a sneaking character. So please, stop trolling. You have the description of Hide in Plain Sight. You have the description of how the Hide skill works. Those two pieces of information are all that one needs to see that you are wrong. Now hush, Monkey, and let the adults discuss things for once.


Back to the original topic - another question to consider is this: if an illusion casts a shadow, can the Shadowdancer hide in it? After all, PnP Shadowdancers have the ability to manifest illusions via the Shadow Illusion ability (possibly where they get their name, as they can make the shadows 'dance'). Another thing to wonder - can a Shadowdancer hide in her pet shadow?

WeWhoEat wrote:You have the description of Hide in Plain Sight. You have the description of how the Hide skill works. Those two pieces of information are all that one needs to see that you are wrong.

And who has been pointing those to you all these years? Hmn? It is commendable that you are finally referring to PnP source material. But as for your claims of me being wrong, coudl you tell me where am I wrong? I know, it involves actually reading what I typed, and most likely realising that you are wrong yourself, but there is always the statistical probability that I've made a mistake. Perhaps you get lucky!

And a shadow is shadow. And don't be daft, you cannot hide inside your pet shadow. But if your pet shadow casts a shadow, you can hide in his proximity. But as it stands, there are always shadows everywhere, so you do not need to.

Um... can we keep it civil...? It would be a horrible shame to see this thread locked...

As Simian says, HiPS is (Su). Trying to relate it to reality is, as has been said before, absurd.

NOT HiPS RELATED!

With the present absence of Cyric (as a deity) during this period, who would be considered the god of madness/insanity?

Some day I would like to roll a truly crazy (CE or CN type) character, possibly with multiple personalities. Cuz... why not. Because I said so, that's why. I can't take you any longer. I'll end you! Want to get a pie? Hrm... fine... pie it is.

HiPS RELATED!

Let's break this down:

Page 76 of the Player's Handbook - HIDE Use this skill to sink back into the shadows and proceed unseen, to approach a wizard’s tower under cover of brush, or to tail someone through a busy street without being noticed.
You need cover or concealment in order to attempt a Hide check. Total cover or total concealment usually (but not always; see Special, below) obviates the need for a Hide check, since nothing can see you anyway.
Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Hide check as part of movement, so it doesn’t take a separate action. However, hiding immediately after a ranged attack (see Sniping, above) is a move action.

Page 195 of the Dungeon Master's Guide - Hide in Plain Sight (Su): A shadowdancer can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow.

As part of that 10 foot movement to get to the shadow, the dancer uses the supernatural ability to enter said shadow and hide herself, without having anything to hide behind and doing it in plain view of those around them. The supernatural aspect is being able to use the shadows to hide oneself in the first place. To use the shadows made by the spaces in cobble seems as easy as a half-orc hiding behind a one inch thick sapling. to be able to do it would imply that the dancer can also warp the shape of her body to fit a shadow of any size or shape.

Unfortunately the description says "some sort of shadow" and yes, this is a supernatural ability. But does it mean you can use a one inch thick shadow to hide a 1 foot wide or larger individual in it. As with any DM campaign, it should be up to the DM to decide such discrepancies... or in our case... the staff.

This all seems a moot point anyway since it is easy to conceive that there are plenty of shadows within 10 feet of a character anyway. Unless the dancer is standing on flat ground in the middle of a desert with no plants or rocks, HiPS simply works. Emote it as *steps into the shadow of a nearby tree/wall/rockface/half-orc* and you'll be fine. Emoting *steps into the shadow of the cobble on the path* just seems like god-moding.

ragnarok1983 wrote:NOT HiPS RELATED!

With the present absence of Cyric (as a deity) during this period, who would be considered the god of madness/insanity?

Some day I would like to roll a truly crazy (CE or CN type) character, possibly with multiple personalities. Cuz... why not. Because I said so, that's why. I can't take you any longer. I'll end you! Want to get a pie? Hrm... fine... pie it is.

Erythnul and Vecna have the madness domain though they aren't FR... but I say we simply have Paws ascend as a deity with madness as one of his domains!

wizards don't emote *flinging fireball*

my sneaker does not emote *steps into the shadows*

he needs to hide, he hides, using hips, as described above. i do not feel emoting it is either necessary, nor practical

I don't understand why this subject comes up, over and over and over, in a realm where giant/ancient red dragons fly, breathe fire, talk, cast spells

it is a supernatural ability. there is always some type of shadow nearby to use it. I do not feel the need to emote what the engine already does. my character has hips. i click hide on my hotbar while he is in plain sight of others. he disappears into the shadows

emoting is great, but not always necessary. in pnp we have to emote. here, we do not have to, not always, not when it is an action the game engine does with a click