Coming Soon: Discussion Thread (2021)

[mrm3ntalist]

GIB Awaken to the Animal domain, instead of commune with nature

Commune with Nature is pnp accurate, sorry.

[DaloLorn]

Did anything ever become of this?

[Steve]

Did anything ever become of this?

Ariella retired, so last anyone heard this has grounded to a halt until another developer takes it up.

[EasternCheesE]

Be assured, it's not forgotten, though, it's not worked at right now. Things can change when Devs decide to give it a go.

[Ravial]

I've noticed that Renewal Domain and Healing Domains got quite a bit of change. Namely, the Healing domain got Rejuvenation Cocoon on circle 9 and Renewal domain had it removed and added Stone to Flesh, Polymorph and Mind Blank.

I think it goes without saying that Mind Blank is not fitting to the theme of the domain. I get why Polymorph is there, but Stone to Flesh?

Mechanically speaking... Putting Rejuvenation Cocoon on circle 9 slot makes sure it'll never be used. There are too many important spells on Circle 9 already, as it is, and always more important than the Cocoon spell. I'd suggest putting it at circle 7 since that spell slot has a lot of spells that are either very situational or just downright useless compared to extended circle 6 spells in the cleric spell list.

Honestly, Rejuvenation Cocoon should stay on the Renewal domain (It was put there because it was a fitting replacement for lack of other not-theme-fitting spells, such as reincarnation), and both it and the Healing Domain should have their place in the cleric spellbook adjusted to lower circles.

[Rhifox]

I've noticed that Renewal Domain and Healing Domains got quite a bit of change. Namely, the Healing domain got Rejuvenation Cocoon on circle 9 and Renewal domain had it removed and added Stone to Flesh, Polymorph and Mind Blank.

I think it goes without saying that Mind Blank is not fitting to the theme of the domain. I get why Polymorph is there, but Stone to Flesh?

Mechanically speaking... Putting Rejuvenation Cocoon on circle 9 slot makes sure it'll never be used. There are too many important spells on Circle 9 already, as it is, and always more important than the Cocoon spell. I'd suggest putting it at circle 7 since that spell slot has a lot of spells that are either very situational or just downright useless compared to extended circle 6 spells in the cleric spell list.

Honestly, Rejuvenation Cocoon should stay on the Renewal domain (It was put there because it was a fitting replacement for lack of other not-theme-fitting spells, such as reincarnation), and both it and the Healing Domain should have their place in the cleric spellbook adjusted to lower circles.

Problem has been figuring out a spell that fits Healing at 9th level. So if changing out Cocoon, what would you put in its place?

Mind Blank was given because I was told Mords is too strong and we don't have the Freedom spell. Mind Blank was picked because it removes existing mind-affecting debuffs from the caster, and so functions in a similar capacity (freeing someone from Hold spells or Solipsism, for example). As said here for Freedom: "The subject is freed from spells and effects that restrict its movement, including binding, entangle, grappling, imprisonment, maze, paralysis, petrification, pinning, sleep, slow, stunning, temporal stasis, and web." Freedom of Movement already removes the effects of binding, entangle, etc, while Mind Blank would free one from paralysis, sleep, slow, stun, and so on, so both parts of Freedom would be covered. But If you have another suggestion for the spot, please let me know. I was also told that I couldn't give either Heroism or GHero to Renewal, which were my initial stand-ins for Heroes Feast.

Stone to Flesh was added because, again, Renewal has a theme of freeing from imprisonment and restoring the body against debilitating effects. And the Freedom spell specifically removes petrification. So, Remove Disease, Freedom of Movement, Stone to Flesh, Greater Restoration, and Mind Blank are all in the vein of removing debilitating effects. To me, that feels more fitting than Cocoon, but if people really want Cocoon, I can add it back.

[mrm3ntalist]

Mind Blank was given because I was told Mords is too strong

I noticed that some domains had a toned down version of Mords, but i didnt want to believe that is was because it was considered too powerful...

Why is mords too powerful on clerics but not for wizards/sorcs? Some here seem to have a wrong impression for clerics since it is the class that has gotten hit the hardest with the nerfbat - Divine Power, Deathward, Hierophant and now this?

[Dragonslayer]

Why is mords too powerful on clerics but not for wizards/sorcs? Some here seem to have a wrong impression for clerics since it is the class that has gotten hit the hardest with the nerfbat - Divine Power, Deathward, Hierophant and now this?

I...can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

Mords on a medium AB class with access to a multitude of self-buffs, death spells, along with another hard counter to any arcane spellcaster and UMD user to me sounds like a questionable idea. The breach list includes like, four cleric-only spells total in comparison to around twenty-one arcane only spells. How is it fair to give them a way to disable arcane classes to that extent?

[cosmic ray]

Like it even matters. Just use Mords scrolls. It's what even my mages do.

[Rhifox]

Mind Blank was given because I was told Mords is too strong

I noticed that some domains had a toned down version of Mords, but i didnt want to believe that is was because it was considered too powerful...

Why is mords too powerful on clerics but not for wizards/sorcs? Some here seem to have a wrong impression for clerics since it is the class that has gotten hit the hardest with the nerfbat - Divine Power, Deathward, Hierophant and now this?

I don't know.


Anyway, on Renewal, I've gone ahead and replaced Stone to Flesh with Rejuvenation Cocoon and created the Freedom spell as Renewal's 9th level spell. As in pnp, it functions as FoM + Mind Blank + Stone to Flesh which lasts for 6 sec / CL. I can technically use this for Healing domain's capstone spell, too, if there are no better alternatives.

[mrm3ntalist]

Why is mords too powerful on clerics but not for wizards/sorcs? Some here seem to have a wrong impression for clerics since it is the class that has gotten hit the hardest with the nerfbat - Divine Power, Deathward, Hierophant and now this?

I...can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

Mords on a medium AB class with access to a multitude of self-buffs, death spells, along with another hard counter to any arcane spellcaster and UMD user to me sounds like a questionable idea. The breach list includes like, four cleric-only spells total in comparison to around twenty-one arcane only spells. How is it fair to give them a way to disable arcane classes to that extent?

You mean arcane casters do not have medium and high BAB PRCS?
And please tell me that you are not talking about pvp...

I don't know.

Ye, that sounds familiar....

[Dragonslayer]

Like it even matters. Just use Mords scrolls. It's what even my mages do.

I mean, it does matter. A cleric casting Mord's from a scroll via UMD gets a far lower DC than a cleric using their full CL to cast for the dispel check.

[Aspect of Sorrow]

Going to have to agree that if Mords ends up in the cleric repertoire then more cleric spells need to be breachable, and I don't mean just a few for parity.

[mrm3ntalist]

Going to have to agree that if Mords ends up in the cleric repertoire then more cleric spells need to be breachable, and I don't mean just a few for parity.

What spells you want to add to the breach list? Clerics do not have Shadow Shield, they dont have Shades, they do not have Premo. All the spells that you need to breach (Death ward, energy immunities ) in order for arcanes to have an even bigger advantage over clerics, are already in the list.

Just in case you guys are thinking about pvp, even if clerics have mords, an average player with an arcane caster, will have 0 issues in dealing with a cleric - in more thn 1 ways. In PvE there are even less reasons to think that mords for clerics is too powerful.

EDIT: Actually adding more spells on the breach list, will do clerics a favor since they will play the percentages like arcanes do.

EDIT2 And BTW, since we like to do things with PnP in mind, where exactly can one find the Breach list in PnP? ... Ye, exactly what i thought

[Steve]

I don't know.

Ye, that sounds familiar....

Be nice M3nt!!