Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Storm Munin wrote: Which brings us to:

Faction leaders trying to become an arena champion or even gladiatoring?
Really?
Why, what would move them to such a desperate act of revealing their strength and weaknessess while also risking ridicule if failing badly?

Sure, Seat Ilphryssin could benefit from winning a bout or two. But a Seat loosing?
What impact and ramifications would that have?
Isnt it in essence the same for all of those playing the game of politics and power mongering at large?
Lilith may be a crazy bastard but arena fighting?
No way, the citizens and residents of Sshamath exist to entertain her, not the other way around.

Another spot on point! Although ticking boxes is more to do with the character development not the event itself, so I will not voice my opinion about it in here.

One more thing to do more with the arena though:

The matches are to the death, there is no such thing as yielding.

Fight no.2 - the opponent walked away.

Another idea is to let the arena stay open so that people can make pvp matches for themselves. By this they have a place where they can try out everything, but its not official.

Sounds like hard work for the devs but also a very cool idea IMHO. It could be used for PVM or PVP perhaps, I've seen it done before with some sucess.

*edit* One other thing, maybe put a limit on betting on fights, I was amazed at people making 30000 coin per fight. I realize one could lose a lot of gold as well, but when one considers that the first fight is usually the easiest, it seems like a no brainer to bet a lot of coin on the frist couple fights.

Maybe something like this:

Round 1: 1000 gold max bet.
Round 2: 2500 gold max
Round 3: 5000 gold max
Round 4: 10000 gold max
etc...

It would be interesting for combatants to take on special challenges to increase the payout to perhaps 3 to 1 or more. Challenges could include:

No buffing! (No sane caster would ever choose this!)
Random weapon! (if you get something you can't use tough luck!)
No armor! (eek im naked!)
No rings, belt, amulet! (Hey my stuff isn't that great anyway!)
Start out at quarter health! (no risk no reward!)

Why someone would make it harder on themselves to increase everyone else's payout is beyond me. Just trying to think outside the box, I don't really expect any of my suggestions to be put in game.

I really enjoyed the event myself, though I know that IC Elbereth got bored watching the buffing and complained about the lack of refreshments ((haha)). I think many of the points made are quite valid - no magic should be allowed (this includes potions, scrolls, etc.) and mundane gear should be used by combatants in order to make the fight more challenging for the contestants, making it more entertaining for those watching (after all, that is the purpose of such an event). That said - the monsters spawned should be limited to base creatures as well (no spell caster monsters), so it is similar to the Colosseum. I'd also agree that it makes little to no RP sense for ranking drow to enter the tournament and show of their abilities. Having NPCs which sell things like food/drinks to the spectators would be nice, too

An assistant would have helped with more NPCs to entertain the scattered players, as Absolution already said. Between all the preparation and the main animation, and probably the many tells, as a single DM it can be hardcore mode to run this.

I didn't necessarily mean a DM controlled NPC - even a tavern vendor like in Glouras' Wings would be good But as I said - I liked the event a lot and enjoyed RPing with the group in the same spectator area Elbereth was in even without such NPCs

Alright, first off i plan on having a few things implemented into the arena, to help provide some better grounds for RP and to make things less hectic for me in the preparation phase.

1) Have the guards already made into the arena. (So i don't have to make them for each event)

2) Perhaps add a bar with a barkeep? And perhaps even some waitresses placed at the VIP balconies? (I have been thinking of letting the spectator fee be split into two. -Commoner and -Noble. Thoughts?

3) Perhaps add some NPC's (Spectators) ? These can be used by the assistant DM's to help spark some RP as well as perhaps starting bets or whatnot with the other spectators (PC's)

Any other suggestions to changes we should add to the arena -area- itself?

DM_Absolution wrote:2) I DC almost every time i enter the Arena, does anyone else have that?

Many did, myself included. Must be something with the area.

DM_Absolution wrote:Alright, first off i plan on having a few things implemented into the arena, to help provide some better grounds for RP and to make things less hectic for me in the preparation phase.

1) Have the guards already made into the arena. (So i don't have to make them for each event)

2) Perhaps add a bar with a barkeep? And perhaps even some waitresses placed at the VIP balconies? (I have been thinking of letting the spectator fee be split into two. -Commoner and -Noble. Thoughts?

3) Perhaps add some NPC's (Spectators) ? These can be used by the assistant DM's to help spark some RP as well as perhaps starting bets or whatnot with the other spectators (PC's)

Any other suggestions to changes we should add to the arena -area- itself?

This all sounds awesome Absolution!

As for the DC problem I didn't crash going through to the arena but the issue may be because of the lighting - I know it was a bit buggy for me (not sure for others?) with the light off the braziers appearing then disappearing and lighting has been the source of crashing / lag issues I've seen before. The only other cause I can think of is the portal there. Maybe if it were a permanent transition instead of a placeable or if players were pulled to the DM who is already there it may solve the problem?

Trapped areas and possibly timer traps discouraging immobility would be nice once fighting begins.

Maybe not always but it would add an element of chaos and stave off the warding sessions from Hell... perhaps something the spectators could affect?

Coin for or against difficulties on the arena?


In truth the use of invisibility, ethereal trips and HIPS would make any fight sort of hard to follow for the common man and might cause a lot of tension in a crowd of spectators.
One way of starting riots I suppose...

I am not saying there shouldnt be fights involving the above, but maybe it would be more likely to be privately sponsored and watched games?
Any sneak has reason not to publically expose just how good he or she is at it for that matter.
Well, unless he or she in truth has its main interests in companies hiring out guardsmen good at spotting I suppose.

I also DCed upon entering the arena.

I concur also that 3 minutes of buffing shouldn't be allowed, at least not while being untargetable. You would have a riot in the crowds in a real arena. Gladiators are entertainers, that simple, and not usually of any high stature in society. If you are a boring gladiator, you probably would be fed to the lions.

That said, if you plan on allowing such type of buffing then you need to have a monster selection picked out to handle those builds ahead of time. Thus, you need to know what the PC's build is ahead of time. I know the DMs have predone creatures that I built personally that the DMs can use that can handle FS just fine, unless they were deleted.

The Rp was ok on the side lines, but I have to admit the there was a lack of refreshments.

Personally, I would just ban ethereal jaunt, etherealness, and all sanctuary spells. They don't function as they should anyhow, and just lead to boring matches.

Oh, and in addition, you should add a penalty to sneaking (move silently and hide) for the arena area. That place is just wide open and I don't see how the environment promotes sneaking in the slightest.

((Just to be clear, while I have a character who is in a guild leadership position, it is not Alienor. And, as far as real world parallels with Rome, it may be instructive to know that voluntary participation in gladiatorial combat from the equestrian and senatorial classes was hardly unknown. In fact, a number of emperors themselves fought in the arena. As a footnote, if players disqualify themselves from participating in the arena based on general guild affiliation or realistic role-play just how many potential gladiators will we have remaining?

I would not have decided to have Alienor fight as a gladiator but for two reasons. First, overcoming challenges through physical struggle is very much a part of who and what Alienor is. Second, I wanted to support through direct participation DM Absolution hard work in creating an arena and organizing gladiatorial matches in it.

If I was aware that a whole host of players was queuing up to fight, I would have been glad to yield to others. As far as I knew, a character named Grog was to be up next. When DM Absolution told me that I would be the next contestant I assumed that there weren't a large number of prospective gladiators. And to be honest I still am unclear on just how many players are actually willing to enter the arena with their characters instead of merely criticizing others from the (peanut) gallery.

I understand the reservations regarding the process of warding ad infinitum prior to actually fighting but those are the parameters that were set. As has been pointed out that is how some builds function. I offered to pre-buff and also offered to move from match to match without rest. Given the effort by DM Absolution to involve the crowd and to stimulate role-play in the stands such concentrated focus on keeping the action flowing was not possible. I am certain that as he moves forward DM Absolution will improve the process and the arena will fulfill its promise as a great vehicle for role-play spectacle.

Finally, allow me to address one charge directly. Servin, I don't know you and so, unlike you, I won't speculate on what agenda prompted you to level some rather ugly charges. Certainly your conjecture about the "fix" being in is entirely incorrect. At no time did I use anything other than the armor, shield, and weapon I was given in addition to my character's spells and abilities. Yes, I started all of the matches by casting ethereal jaunt once the opponent appeared in the arena. I did so because DM Absolution asked me to start each match without preparation. Was my routine tiresome? Certainly. If you desire and can take satisfaction in an admission by me, I will concede that it was no more exciting for me than the audience. It would have made little sense and provided no better spectacle though to charge into melee unprepared. In the end, your concern about my character being "promoted" is quite misplaced as I think I am done performing for Bouffons.))

Whatever criticism is mentioned in this thread, whether it is from Servin or someone else, i hope that it is said objectively and with good intentions on helping to improve the arena. If anyone tosses any accusations at anyone, they will be banned from participating in -any- of my events in the future.

Let's keep this thread true to it's intent, and that is to post suggestions on how to improve the Arena and make it more fun for the contestants and those involved.

Now, i have already posted some physical changes i want done in the arena, and this week we can start discussing some possible rule changes.

Anyone else have any suggestion about anything else the arena ought to have to help spark some RP. Especially for the spectators as they seem to get bored easily.

Have a high level mage NPC cast a mordenkainen's Disjunction or an AoE spell from the spectator's ranks if one contestant goes the ethereal&buff routine.
It's bound to make things interesting in the arena and for the spectators who might pick start bickering and take sides about that mage's action.

Melisende wrote:Finally, allow me to address one charge directly. Servin, I don't know you and so, unlike you, I won't speculate on what agenda prompted you to level some rather ugly charges. Certainly your conjecture about the "fix" being in is entirely incorrect. At no time did I use anything other than the armor, shield, and weapon I was given in addition to my character's spells and abilities. Yes, I started all of the matches by casting ethereal jaunt once the opponent appeared in the arena. I did so because DM Absolution asked me to start each match without preparation. Was my routine tiresome? Certainly. If you desire and can take satisfaction in an admission by me, I will concede that it was no more exciting for me than the audience. It would have made little sense and provided no better spectacle though to charge into melee unprepared. In the end, your concern about my character being "promoted" is quite misplaced as I think I am done performing for Bouffons.))

Earlier on I have said the following:

/// At one point I wasn't sure if the match was rigged for a DM to pay a favour to the contestant and later overturned as too many negative tells were being sent or something else was going on...

Allow me to have my opinions about things and the permission to voice them, whenever I feel like it. I suppose it is a freedom given in most countries including mine and I am doing so, not running into abuse against anybody. By making my opinions public, anyone looking for feedback can easily find it here and thoughts, that have occurred during the event can be read, whether agreeable or not.

If at some point I was under the impression the match was rigged, I will also say it loud and I won't really be bullied out talking about my impressions if somebody thinks otherwise. Maybe I was not the only one who felt like it, but others do not wish to speak it out. I have also said:

/// I don't mind giving credit where it's due.

Now back to the reply itself...

Was my routine tiresome? Certainly. If you desire and can take satisfaction in an admission by me, I will concede that it was no more exciting for me than the audience. It would have made little sense and provided no better spectacle though to charge into melee unprepared.

Actually it would made a ton of a difference if you would do that. Not because you have foes and people who dislike you in the audience and watching you die would make them feel satisfied. Somewhere, somehow people (and I think you are included in that group by what you've said above) attending such events lost the sense of what those events are all about - fun and have replaced it with - need to win at all costs. In the end, you have taken away the fun from all the spectators, who have voiced their opinions with 3 minute buffs, to satisfy your need to win, therefore tick boxing comes into mind.

I do not understand what you have done there at all and perhaps you could PM me with explanation, so I could try and make sense of what's gone on. You say your routine was tiresome and you found it not exciting as did the audience, but you still did it because you were forced to? To what? To win or to have fun as the events meant to be?

I bet my money on it that if people would stop using this game as a rat race and would rather use it as a tool for good RP, where losing is an option, you yourself would not be fed up with a DM healing your opponents and wouldn't think your loss is a result of a cheat, while all of us would see the whole match more of a game of chance, than a rigged buff-fest where one side is a sure win. But what do I know? I'm just a buffoon with an opinion

But this is a discussion for a separate thread or the PM's. If you wish to continue it, please do so this way and let's have this thread open to help the DM gather feedback rather than read about personal escapades.

//Since there were no rules (i suggested some rules in my previous post), there is really nothing wrong with buffing up to win. As I said, fights are rarely be balanced if you can do whatever you want.

It is just normal if you enter an arena match with your beloved toon and then try your best to win, thats actually the whole point of it: you want to win the match - especially if a big part of the server is watching you. For me the fights were not boring, but the challenges looked too overpowered for me - a dispell would have been sufficient to remove wards; no need for
overtuned attacks... But whatever, make it simple and introduce easy rules (see my previous post) and we should be fine.

Some people made already good suggestions, but I would really recommend that the rules should be kept as simple as possible. Certain suggestions are way too complicated to be useful ingame, since not everyone is following this topic.

edit: i had a client crash aswell as i went through the portal.