Order of the Bow Initiate

[Hoihe]

Last time mrmentalist and I took a look at the class, after you hit level 10 you get precision damage applied to all your attacks, and before that, only the first

[dzidek1983]

Hoihe i didnt ask about that

[Relleck]

Reposting a PM I sent to the DM groups a couple week's back. For any of you playing OOBI's currently, this should be good information to know while the DM's are (hopefully) looking into it.

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Hello folks,

Lately in IRC myself and another player have been engaging others in discussions about an existing class on the server - The Order of the Bow Initiate, and some of the issues currently with the class - not to mention what may or my not be considered an exploit.

At the moment, the class performs rather glitchy in several regards, and in some cases just flat out doesnt work. We're basing this off of the class description information found both in game when selecting the class, as well as our server's wiki page - http://bgtscc.wikia.com/wiki/Order_of_the_Bow_Initiate

The potential exploit right now is the extreme range of the class, which is great for the class flavor/purpose, but currently has odd effects on enemy A.I. behavior. For example, if I were to stand at near max range, its likely the target being hit would not respond to being hit or will responded in a confused state but will be unable to target me. Other times he may notice me, and even if in a pack of other enemies, he'll be the only one to give chase (personally I think that adds purpose...but mechanic wise may be unintended) and other times he wont give chase, but his friends will. Its actually not hard to test this, but do note that the results are unreliable and often vary from test to test. Is this intended? Is this an exploit?

On the subject of Extended Range, which is the renamed Ranged Precision / Extended Precision - ignoring its 120 meter range...another issue with the ability is its line of sight issues. If there is even the slightest bump in the ground, it will potentially prevent the shot, even if I'm within 40 meters of the enemy and my regular attack rotation "sees" the enemy just fine. I'm not certain of the ability uses a special targeting script, a raycast line perhaps that checks for obstructions, but ideally it should follow the same line of sight rules as every other ability - just with a longer range.

Dead Eye Shot doesnt work. Period. Its supposed to be an attack you time to land when someone else is making an attack. Never once have I gotten it to do anything at all.

Ricochet....No clue what this is on the gui for the class. Its not listed in the class description, nor appears to do anything in game.

Ranged Precision (3rd issue with this ability) may or may not be including extra elemental damage. As an elemental archer I have +1 acid. The ability when used however only lists "physical" damage.

Sneak attack range is not being extended as per the classes' description. If this is possible code-wise, I very much believe this is a noteworthy fix for the class, as currently the raw damage of Ranged precision is average at best, and doesnt at all compete with Manyshot - especially since Manyshot is known to double dip on Sneak Attacks.


That's enough of the issues. A brief thought on "fixes".

Extended range for this class makes perfect sense. But 120 is fairly extreme, especially if you cannot code a work-around for enemy AI to recognize who is shooting them, and how to find them. I'd suggest simultaneously lowering the range to 85ish, a fair bit above normal range so the "flavor" of the class remains, while short enough for the enemy to find you, and to fix the sneak attack range for the class. Sure, we've lost some range, but we've picked up the Sneak attack range utility. An excellent trade as far as Im concerned, and less game breaking than attacking a defenseless enemy.

Remove Ricochet if it doesnt actually do anything.

Fix Dead Eye Shot, w/e the issue may be.

And lastly...the buttons for Dead Eye and Ranged Precision exist already, in the feats list. Currently they instead bring up a gui, with the exact same buttons, instead of simply firing off the assigned ability. Not only is this redundant, but its also tedious to have to click to ability rather than be able to hotkey it. Removing the gui, and tying the abilities to the buttons that already exist would make better sense.


Long-winded as this may have been, I hope its informative and helpful. And even if fixes aren't forthcoming anytime soon, I hope to at least get a verdict on whether using the classes intended range is acceptable, even if it frequently causes AI issues.

Thanks.

[Rasael]

Thank you for the extensive feedback.

To answer your question, there is an update planned for the OOBI class, and the use its abilities is okay in-game unless otherwise told by the DM Team - which hasn't happened. Among other things we are perfecting a Ranged Cover system such as seen in PnP.

Dead Eye shot worked when I last tested it half a year ago but it can be confusing to get it to work. What you do is click the icon, click at the target enemy, and then wait until an ally of yours hits the target. It will then trigger and give you an attack bonus.

Ricochette was a placeholder button for the Warslinger PRC.

[mrm3ntalist]

Just a cuple of things to dd on rasaels post

Ranged Precision (3rd issue with this ability) may or may not be including extra elemental damage. As an elemental archer I have +1 acid. The ability when used however only lists "physical" damage.

The elemental damage should be displayed just below the physical damage. For example when i use elemental arrows the combat log is like this
Damage 21 physical
damage 5 fire

If you dont see the elemental damage then it might not trigger for elemental damage.

Maybe this should be fixed and include all damage, physical and elemental in one line.

Sneak attack range is not being extended as per the classes' description. If this is possible code-wise, I very much believe this is a noteworthy fix for the class, as currently the raw damage of Ranged precision is average at best, and doesnt at all compete with Manyshot - especially since Manyshot is known to double dip on Sneak Attacks.

The extended sneak range was decided not to be implemented with OOBI because it was considered too powerful at the time. The class description needs to be updated not to include this.

Another playability issue is with the sharpshooting. If the 5 rounds pass and the button is not clicked to release the arrow, the action is cancelled. I believe in order to make this ability easier to use is to have the arrow released after 5 arrows automatically. If you click the button ( after the first time the action was initiated ) then the arrow can be released earlier

example
-Right click to select targer
- Click Sharpshooting to initiate the action
- If the Sharpshooting button is clicked the release the arrow
- If after 5 rounds the sharpshooting button is not clicked, release the arrow either way with any damage gathered depending on the DCs that were made.

[Chryo]

Sneak attack range is not being extended as per the classes' description. If this is possible code-wise, I very much believe this is a noteworthy fix for the class, as currently the raw damage of Ranged precision is average at best, and doesnt at all compete with Manyshot - especially since Manyshot is known to double dip on Sneak Attacks.

The extended sneak range was decided not to be implemented with OOBI because it was considered too powerful at the time. The class description needs to be updated not to include this.

This actually makes an extreme difference in what builds work and don't work well with OOBI, it also makes me wonder if its even worth taking any sneak class.



As for the Elemental Damage, it does not show. Its just pure physical damage. Hell, extended range almost isn't worth using compared to manyshot.

[mrm3ntalist]

This actually makes an extreme difference in what builds work and don't work well with OOBI, it also makes me wonder if its even worth taking any sneak class.

My preference is not to include classes with SAs and only attack from very long range.

As for the Elemental Damage, it does not show. Its just pure physical damage. Hell, extended range almost isn't worth using compared to manyshot.

I never tested EA with OOBI. I will do that shortly to make certain that there arent any issues. If they are they will be reported.

[Chryo]

Then I am certainly curious as to if it dictates a rebuild, because the class is steering everyone who I know currently who uses it, using it for the wrong reasons. For reasons that the information says it works, but it doesn't.

Edit: That came out far more angry than I intended, but just want to know what I'm building into.

[evokitt]

Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here, but is the OOBI fixed? I just took my first level in this class, and am now stumbling across this thread (I was looking for a OoBI guild).

[Rasael]

Nothing has changed since the messages on page 5.

[Rasael]

This is the rework:

<color=red>(PRESTIGE CLASS: This class is not available at character creation and must be unlocked by meeting special requirements, listed below. This class has 10 levels)</color>

<color=Gold><b>Order of the Bow Initiate</b></color>

When asked "What is Truth?," an initiate of the Order of the Bow picks up his bow, fires an arrow and, without saying a word, lets his mastery of the weapon serve as the gauge of the archer's progress along the way. By learning the meditative art of the Way of the Bow, the archer improves his discipline, precision, and spirituality. Order of the Bow initiates see their weapons as extensions of their being, and the use of a bow as a spiritual experience. Everything comes down to that one shot in the world of the Initiate hence a common saying is: "One shot, one kill".

The Way of the Bow is not a religious creed, nor is the Order of the Bow an actual organization. Instead it refers to a discipline: that of mastering the bow. Initiates literally dedicate themselves to mastering the order that is the bow. The order thus represents the bow as a microcosm, its every aspect a study pursued by the initiate.

Fighters are the most common initiates of the Order of the Bow. Rangers, paladins, and even barbarians utilize these skills and philosophies well. Some rogues and bards have been known to enter the order, but they are rare indeed.


<color=Gold>Requirements:</color>

<b>Race:</b> Any

<b>Alignment:</b> Any

<b>Base Attack Bonust:</b> +5

<b>Skills:</b> Lore 2, Craft Weapon 5

<b>Feats:</b> Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus Short Bow or Longbow


<color=Gold>Class Features:</color>

- <b>Hit Die:</b> d8

- <b>Base Attack Bonus:</b> High

- <b>High Saves:</b> Fortitiude, Reflex

- <b>Weapon Proficiencies:</b> An Order of the Bow Initiate gains no weapon proficiencies.

- <b>Armor Proficiencies:</b> An Order of the Bow Initiate gains no armor proficiencies.

- <b>Skill Points:</b> 2 + Int Modifier.

- <b>Class Skills:</b> Concentration, Craft Weapon, Lore, Hide, Spot, Survival, Sense Motive

- <b>Class Feats</b>
1: Ranged precision +2
2: Dead Eye Shot
3: Ranged precision +4
4: Greater Weapon Focus
5: Ranged precision +6
6: Sharp-Shooting
7: Ranged precision +8
8: None
9: Ranged precision +10
10: Extended Sharpshooting

- <b>Bonus Feats:</b> No bonus feats.


<b>Ranged Precision I to V</b>
Type of Feat: Class Ability
Prerequisites: Order of the Bow Initiate
Specifics: During a regular ranged attack an initiate takes a precisely aimed attack dealing an extra +2 points of damage every two class levels if the attack hits. An initiate’s ranged precision attack only works against living creatures with discernible anatomies. Any creature that is immune to critical hits (either naturally or through a class, item or ability benefit) is not vulnerable to a ranged precision attack. Unlike with a rogue’s sneak attack, the initiate’s target does not have to be flat-footed or denied its Dexterity bonus, but if it is, the initiate’s extra precision damage stacks with sneak attack damage. The initiate’s bonus to damage on ranged precision attacks increases by +2 every two levels.
Use: Automatic


<b>Dead Eye Shot</b>
Type of Feat: General
Prerequisites: Point Blank Shot, Base Attack Bonus + 4
Specifics: By firing just as your ally connects with a blow, you take advantage of the distraction to strike the same enemy when his guard is ruined. If you ready a ranged attack to occur when an ally strikes a particular target, and your ally succeeds, that target loses his Dexterity bonus to AC against your attack.
Use: Selected


<b>Sharp Shooting</b>
Type of Feat: Class Ability
Prerequisites: Order of the Bow Initiate level 6
Specifics: You mark your target and take a concentration check every round before your attack, but you limit yourself to half of your normal attacks. If successful you gain an extra +2 precision damage and an additional +2 attack bonus vs the target. The Sharpshooting DC starts at 10 + 29% of the distance to the target. Your ranged Precision feats apply as well as any sneak attack damage you can do if, this attack is executed as a sneak attack. At Order of the Bow Initiate Level 10 you no longer limit yourself to half your attacks, you now use all your regular attacks.
Use: Selected as a Mode

[mrm3ntalist]

Are those changes included in the latest qc jegs module?

[Rasael]

No, the version from yesterday only includes the ranged combat system extension, which is part of the OOBI rework, but not the rework itself.

If I have time I will put out another update today (26th) which will contain the OOBI rework and the latest melee combat system extension version.

[DM Echo]

Is ranged precision an activated mode? And can it be used with multishot?

[Rasael]

Is ranged precision an activated mode? And can it be used with multishot?

It should be automatic whenever you use an elligible ranged attack. Sharpshooting will work the same.