Should the quests be considered OOC?

[Boddynock]

*slow clap*.

lol

[Steve]

... players with "holier than thou" attitude.

Yet still, there is no one stopping people from treating them as an IC thing, for their own characters, nor is anyone advocating that people should be forced to consider them as an OOC thing for their own characters.

Well...it has always been my opinion that RUNNING/DOING/FULFILLING the Quests should require a PC to be IC, however, the actual CHOICES your PC makes in the Quest dialogues should be considered OOC, because those choices are FUBAR and you often get NOTHING in XP/Coin for choosing the IC appropriate choice (this varies per definition of Alignment...but we'll not go there today...hopefully).

I want to say this one. more. time...whether it matters or not to some: running the Quests, running past other PCs while doing the Quests, having the AFK tag up while running past people doing the Quests, being "active" with your PC by running the quests...this is all within the context of the Server, which is:

– This is a Role-play Server set in the Forgotten Realms campaign world. Please respect the setting and stay in-character (IC).

So square that.

I, personally, do not answer the Quests considering them IC for my PCs. But while I am running them, I honor each and every other Player I encounter with an IC action...even if that means having to stop doing the Quest and now role-play the encounter, which in the end, may prevent me from completing the Quest (at that time).

If one is of the opinion that anything and everything related to the Quests should be entirely OOC, this is problematic in the simple fact that as your PC is "active" on the Server, doing those quests, you are, in principle, denying others the IG chance to role-play. And that is not in the spirit of this Server, imho.

On the other hand, if your PC is forcing the bull crap choices of a Quest on any other PC/Player, knowing full well that the scripted limitations deny any real RP with the Quest, that is also not being a good sportsperson. The only way to hold a PC "accountable" for a Quest, would be after the Quests were updated to give a Good/Neutral/Evil reaction suitable to any PC, and also, receive the equal amount of "pay out," which is why we all do do those Quests (though some do them for an RP reason, and like Thids said, there is no one stopping them from doing that, either). I do not think that will happen, an update.

If any think my attitude is a holier-than-thou attitude, fair enough, you are entitled to your opinion. I, however, simply believe in doing whatever is possible, as a Player, to stay in-character, at all times. We cannot stay in-character while interacting with the NPCs of Quests because of the Quest script options, but we can stay in-character while running them.

[flipside43]

I, personally, do not answer the Quests considering them IC for my PCs. But while I am running them, I honor each and every other Player I encounter with an IC action...even if that means having to stop doing the Quest and now role-play the encounter, which in the end, may prevent me from completing the Quest (at that time).

This is really the kicker for me and why I think they need to remain. It gets people out on the roads and into other areas where random encounters with other players can happen. I see this as the true value of the quests, far beyond any XP they may grant (though it is helpful). It generates RP to have lower levels find help from higher levels to get to Beregost. It introduces newer players to the city, then to the major areas along the Trade Way (Cloakwood, Sharp Teeth, Goblin Cave, Wyvern Valley). If you are just running around with an AFK tag on your head ... you loose all of this. Plus they give you something to do when you can't find RP, as Snarfy said.

Quests may not be ideal, but this is an RP server, we are asked to stay in character. I just try to do my best with what is presented.

[Karond]

[this is problematic in the simple fact that as your PC is "active" on the Server, doing those quests, you are, in principle, denying others the IG chance to role-play. And that is not in the spirit of this Server, imho.

If you are just running around with an AFK tag on your head ... you loose all of this.

Maybe one does lose that, but that's a point of view that doesn't consider why people do it (and why I for instance have started doing it). I run with the AFK tag up just to let others know that my actions are OOC. I'm running the quests for xp. Quests that no matter if they actually have 50+ dialogue answers would not still comply with my character. For me, and others, perhaps it even goes further in that the quests are just not in line with something the character would do.

One of my characters for instance that always run with the AFK tag up is an evil human blood-witch. I would never IC be anywhere near the cities. I most certainly would not wander off to look for a key for halflings in a cave that holds no interest at all to my character. The only reason I'm even near that area is because of the quests.

I do not want people look at my character IC as being there to begin with. I'm just using a xp mechanic, as a player, that circumvents using another xp mechanic, grinding. I would simply never level up otherwise if all I did was sit around in a forest gathering ingredients for a cauldron. So the crucial thing here that you both miss is that the characters are extremely likely only to be in the area for the quests. Quests are OOC, not just the brief moment that you're talking to the NPC, but it's very existence from start to finish.

It's more of a courtesy, representing the character correctly, than going against the "spirit of the server".

[flipside43]

Maybe one does lose that, but that's a point of view that doesn't consider why people do it (and why I for instance have started doing it).

Hardly. I already stated about the server rules and acting in character. My presupposition was that people are following the rules and remaining in character. I find that's a pretty good presupposition to build upon as it is one of the server rules. Whereas your presupposition for OOC'ly gaining XP is...?

So the crucial thing here that you both miss is that the characters are extremely likely only to be in the area for the quests.

I would encourage you to go back and read what I wrote again. I stated that this was the reason to keep the quests

This is really the kicker for me and why I think they need to remain. It gets people out on the roads and into other areas where random encounters with other players can happen. I see this as the true value of the quests, far beyond any XP they may grant (though it is helpful).

[Karond]

You missed my point then. You think it's great for people to run around in circles, because it means a lot of traffic to certain areas, onto which you can park yourself and ambush people with RP, I assume? Yet as I pointed out, the mere action of visiting certain areas is only for the quests. Several characters would never go to certain areas IC if it weren't for the quests. If the quests are OOC, so is them being in that area if they so wish. That seems to be the thing that you and others are unwilling to accept?

If we quote the server rules, here is the relevant part:

"You can go out-of-character (OOC) if there is need for clarifications, or if you wouldn't be disturbing role-play around you by doing so "

Quite simply, not distrubing anyone running with an AFK tag up. Hell, I could solo and have that tag up 100% of the time and be within the server rules.

[Steve]

Quite simply, not distrubing anyone running with an AFK tag up.

That disturbs me. Is disturbing 1 player enough for it to not be something to do?

The AFK tag stands for Away From Keyboard. The AFK tag does not say OOC, nor has it ever been interpreted as that. That TheVoid initiated the situation to allow Gray Orcs to fly the AFK and do the Gate Quests was a total bull crap decision, and should be changed...cause see where it has gotten us?

It has gotten us to Players misinterpreting the Server Rules in order to perform non-IC actions on an IC role-playe server.

Honestly, to say that I do quests OOC because my toon has no IC reason to be in an Area, is a big crap upon the spirit of this Server, Karond. Can't you create an IC reason? Use some imagination and make an effort to be IC!!!

[Karond]

Like the gray orc, there are a ton of characters who wouldn't do this or that quest because of its location (especially the questgiver) even if one ignores its nature (dealing with evil imps etc.). Moving the questgivers helps some, but the mere action of moving towards certain areas is part of that quest and as such also OOC IMO. To ignore that too, one would have to make an NPC just hand you a lump sum of xp and gold every week without any other action.

Even taking up the view of forcing others to be IC on quests, there would still be other OOC occurances similiar to it. Have we all slain tens of thousands of sentient beings IC? We've mechanically. If we take this literally IC too, we're all not far from walking demi-gods and should be treated as such then. It would be an interesting avenue for a paladin to take. Slay every character they see for commiting evil deeds, such as killing the neutral or good creature spawns around the server, which is something that pretty much everyone has done at some point.

[Steve]

Karond, you are very much correct to point out the number of inconsistencies we the Players have to "deal with" when RPing on BGTSCC.

But is it really necessary to add some form of "OOC mode" to the experience?!?

Is it beyond reason to "require" Players to do their utmost to stay in-character...and if you the Player create a toon that has no IC reason to be in an Area, that you bear that self-imposed burden and NOT go to that Area (and not do the Quest)?

Submitting the idea that the Server Rules currently allow you to through up an AFK tag and run the Server is just...well, I can only hope you were being facetious.

[Invoker]

So, basically, it seems the situation is this:

- it is perceived as good to be IC as much as possible, ideally at all times.
- killing countless hundreds of monsters is an OOC action
- questing is an OOC action for a wide variety of character types, and all of them by the second/third time for almost all quests.
- Questing and killing by the hundreds are necessary to level up.

The solution seems rather simple to me:

a) Make quests one time only, and IC mandatory.
b) Raise XP per kill to 100+ for equal CR enemies. Adventuring must be IC.
c) Profit.

All IC, nobody frustrated because they can't level in this lifetime, no more drama for deaths and penalties, permadeath enforceable without big problems, all the RP "purists" satisfied.

[thids]

Karond, you are very much correct to point out the number of inconsistencies we the Players have to "deal with" when RPing on BGTSCC.

But is it really necessary to add some form of "OOC mode" to the experience?!?

Is it beyond reason to "require" Players to do their utmost to stay in-character...and if you the Player create a toon that has no IC reason to be in an Area, that you bear that self-imposed burden and NOT go to that Area (and not do the Quest)?

Submitting the idea that the Server Rules currently allow you to through up an AFK tag and run the Server is just...well, I can only hope you were being facetious.

So certain characters should suffer an xp penalty because of their concept? That doesn't sound right. I would wholeheartedly agree with you steve if quests weren't an essential part of the xp system in epic levels.

Where does this stop? Should the staff then make a sticky announcement post in which they explain which character concepts are less desirable on the server?

And really, let's look at one of the main "benefits" of the quests (this is in response to flipside as well on his point). They effectively allow people NOT to go around the server and adventure/interact with people for the majority of their playtime, while still gaining xp at a steady rate. All for the price of some giant dung hauling once a week. I played a character like that, at a certain point the levels I gained started to feel silly.

[Karond]

So certain characters should suffer an xp penalty because of their concept? That doesn't sound right.

Indeed, that's the issue at hand.

[Steve]

The above is only an issue if you think XP is a given, a right, or actually promised to you. Which it is not.

[thids]

Except it is? The quests along with crippled xp gains in epic levels are a way to keep grinders in check while offering others a way to keep up with them. Shall we go back to all those threads in which people complain about xp then? All of those claims of ridiculously slow xp gain are countered with "yes but you see if you only do quests every week..."

[Steve]

Is there not a difference between "it is," "you can," and "I want?"

XP gain of any sort is not, nor should it be, considered a given. In principle. That quests do give a reliable XP gain, is still not a given, in principle. It is however what players take advantage of...and I'm advocating they do it in-character (but consider the quest dialogues OOC for all the reasons already said).

But at the moment what I hear many saying is: "I paid my quarter so I have the right to win this video game." Which we know is just not how it works!