Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Ok.

Let me stop you right there.

I would never do any of this, whether it is in my PCs behavior or not, because it is a douche move..

1. You can kill ANY summons at ANY time.

2. The ridiculous "leave or die" RP out can be handed to a player any time.... and then a thumping would commence. It's lame, but it is allowed.

3. The fact the summons/companion (except dog) is in the purview of the guards, that is god modding. So if you have a Hellhound right outside FAI entrance... you are godmodding, because the guards would kill it...and probably the player as well.


Players should be respectful of others, but if someone is breaking your immersion outside FAI or anywhere... ignore them. If it REALLY bothers you. Take a screenshot and PM the DM group here on the forums.


It just feels like this thread is going on in a cycle.... You can look up my posts where a "paladin" killed my Druid's dog companion because he was in FAI. He was wrong on all counts as he did not do the following:

1. Mind the PvP initiation rules, as there was no RP out or consent given"
2. The dog is not considered to be "monstrous or a wild animal"
3. He attacked something considered to be a player (companions are to be treated as players) in front of the guards, therefore godmodding
4. He self appointed himself to "clean up" the wrong outside FAI.

I was pissed, mostly cause the dog's name was removed after the death and never came back.

But the rules are there as a guideline. We, the community help police ourselves and educate the unintiated, and report those who refuse to conform and let the DMs make the ruling of right or wrong and execute the punishment, if any.

In closing, relax. Not like anyone lost any xp, gold or equipment. Retcon the event and just move forward.

AstralisAdept wrote: Indeed. Just as well attacking a player for said summon/companion/familar would equally be godmodding and it needs to stop. They should report it to DMs etc. etc.

AstralisAdept wrote:

You are taking these rules completely out of context and also you keep contradicting yourself by saying it is not in lawed lands then saying it is by posting these rules

How so, they're perfectly in context. A player has no right OOC or IC to pvp someone under the excuse it is "against the law here".

AstralisAdept wrote:You can look up my posts where a "paladin" killed my Druid's dog companion because he was in FAI. He was wrong on all counts as he did not do the following:

NegInfinity wrote:

AstralisAdept wrote:You can look up my posts where a "paladin" killed my Druid's dog companion because he was in FAI. He was wrong on all counts as he did not do the following:

Report to the dm. Paladin code is strict, when they mess up they lose ALL the divine powers and can fall. However, that requires DM intervention, and unless you report the incident to DMs, they won't know about it.

They have the right to do that.
Any summon that is not an animal companion or a familiar can be killed on the spot.
Any underdark companion/familiar can be killed on the spot.

For companion/familiar, they can approach and start acting hostile through non-combat means. They're required to give you an option to RP out of combat - you should usually be able to weasel out of combat through talking. But they are allowed to approach you, claim that your cat familiar is a long lost son of asmodeous and therefore you should die and your heart should be sacrificed to the morninglord, for the greater good.

Hawke wrote: that was a LONG time ago, and

AstralisAdept wrote: In the case of a Druid out front of FAI with his spider out.

AstralisAdept wrote: Please explain why its okay for someone to say "Gah! Thats against the law sir! *smashes spider to bits".

AstralisAdept wrote:Even worse is the concept of of people doing this over sentient lawful good summons.

"Git yur angel outa here before I uphold justice and hellball your face!"

I think at this point several people already quoted proper pvp protocol. Have you read the rules?

AstralisAdept wrote:

I think at this point several people already quoted proper pvp protocol. Have you read the rules?

NegInfinity wrote:

AstralisAdept wrote:

I think at this point several people already quoted proper pvp protocol. Have you read the rules?

Could ask you the same.

I already explained how someone should/would usually go about initiating pvp based on presence of familiar/companion. I also provided links to the rules.

Have you read any of this or did I waste the time here?

NegInfinity wrote: Have you read any of this or did I waste the time here?

AstralisAdept wrote: Aaaah trolling I see.

PvP Rules and Guidelines wrote:

<< Familiars, Companions, Summonings and Shapeshifting >>

• Familiars and Animal Companions are considered an extension of the player character. Normal PvP rules must be followed if you wish to attack Familiars and Animal Companions.
  However, the owner of a Monstrous Humanoid, Hellhound, or Worg animal companion consents to PvP if s/he is seen on the surface with that animal companion.

• Summons can be attacked on sight, but normal PvP rules must be followed for the summoner (the player). The owner of the summons must also follow normal PvP rules in order to attack the killer of his or her summons. (Summons include any creature that can be summoned through a spell or an ability, and that is not a Familiar or an Animal Companion: These include angels, devils, elementals, and undead, among others.)

• Shapeshifting: While polymorphed into a form that is not your own, you are perceived as being what you have become. This is PVP consent, unless you revert back to your natural form or RP that you are not a threat to the player that happens upon you in a shapeshifted form.

DM Dialectic wrote:

DM Ditto wrote:Chiming in here to say that the transition note regarding Flaming Fist keeping an eye on the FAI is outdated. The outskirts of the Friendly Arm Inn that's not in front of the portcullis is considered a lawless place.

DM Nephilim wrote:Here is a general rule of thumb that I use, but by no means reflects the entire DM team. If there are no NPC guards on the map, then it is pretty much lawless. If there are NPC guards, then there is law. The FAI is somewhat of an exception to this as Inside the walls of the FAI and just ourside the main gate are what Bently's gaurds patrol.

DMs have been known to have archers shoot at summons or polymorphed characters that run by but those are typically Undead or demon/devil in nature.

That being said, with all the issues with the new updates, I have been more lient for people who pop in at the spawn point with summons as they test the spells in the nexus, and some are bugged and they can't get rid of them till they rest, and they have to go in game to rest.

A few more notes on IC NPC Duchal law enforcement in the wild areas of the server between Baldur's Gate and Northern Amn, with the Friendly Arm Inn as a different political island between.

-The Grand Dukes of Baldur's Gate have a strong political claim to the lands inside the walls of Baldur's Gate as well as the Farmlands nearby the city (these Farmlands and the major entry points to them that are NPC guarded by guards loyal to the Dukes or Flaming Fist are known as the "environs" of Baldur's Gate), as well as the lands all the way south to the border with Northern Amn on the north bank of the river north of Beregost. The western border of this claim is the Sea of Swords coast and may even extend into the sea as well. The eastern border runs west and north of Gullykin in the southeast and without clarity (to the public IC) either goes through or around the Woods of Sharpteeth to the north until hitting the River Chiontar and then follows rough proximity of the river west until back in the area of Baldur's Gate, encompassing the Fields of the Dead on the way. The Friendly Arm Inn would be an island of non-Duchal political claim within this region, but the ruler of the Friendly Arm Inn is on very friendly terms with the Grand Dukes of Baldur's Gate.

-If a major foreign and non-friendly power were to start to politically interfere in this area of Duchal claim without permission (say the government of Amn tried to setup a military base in the wilds between the Friendly Arm Inn and Wyrm's Crossing without Duchal permission), the Grand Dukes would likely defend this claim with the threat of force or actual force. This political dimension is different from whether Duchal law is regularly enforced in wild areas claimed by the Dukes.

-As DM Ditto implied, outside of regularly patrolled areas by NPCs loyal to the Dukes or the Flaming Fist, Duchal law is not regularly enforced in all areas of their political claim that are "wild" (as in not regularly patrolled areas by NPCs loyal to the Dukes or the Flaming Fist, which in game terms means that there are no permanent NPC guards on a game map for it to be considered an entirely wild map area) and alleged crimes in wild areas not regularly patrolled by NPC guards loyal to the Dukes, but still within the area of Duchal political claim, are often not prosecuted by Duchal magistrates either. It is certainly possible though that if an occasional Flaming Fist patrol happened to go past a necromancer with a skeleton buddy on the Trade Way in the wilds claimed by the Dukes that they would be held to account under Duchal law.

-In the case of the Friendly Arm Inn, as DM Nephilim implied, inside the walls of the FAI and just outside the main gate are where the Friendly Arm Inn guards frequently patrol and therefore where the laws of the Friendly Arm Inn, which are distinct from Duchal laws of Baldur's Gate, are enforced IC. Where there may be other NPC guards in otherwise wild map areas could mean that NPC enforced law applies there as well, but what NPC enforced law depends on the NPCs guarding.

-Keep in mind that Duchal law IC is ONLY enforceable and judicially processed by NPCs loyal to the Grand Dukes. There are no player characters able to charge, prosecute, convict, and punish other player characters for violations of Duchal law IC. This being said, NPC guards and NPC public areas in civilized areas of Duchal control should not be metagamed to assume that just because a DM was not around that no one saw an IC violation of Duchal law and did not react IC. Doing otherwise is in fact an OOC violation of NPC metagaming and godmoding rules. Player characters can certainly act as witnesses and send in reports to the Duchal authorities on any legal wrongdoing allegedly seen in regularly NPC guarded areas where Duchal law is typically enforced, but only NPCs (DMs) determine the legal outcome of Duchal law, not players.

As a result, the best way to deal with reporting perceived IC law violations when a DM is not present on the scene in game is to PM the DM team on the forums screenshots and an IC/OOC report of what happened. The best way to IC violate the law of a local NPC guarded area without metagaming or godmoding NPCs and violating server rules is to PM the DM team with a player request asking to do so with DM permission first: http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=48188.