Possible QC change - Community input appreciated

[JCVD1]

Remove. Ban. Murder, death kill!

I die a little inside, each time a Favored soul calls himself "Dreadlord, Dawnmaster, High Watchknight" etc...

There is nowhere in the lore of the 3.5 where a Favored soul is put in the spot light. Champions of gods are paladins or clerics.

I do not care about the balancing or the Damage reduction. The Rp reasoning behind the whole class just... makes me cringe as much as the near 100% Aasimar Paladin Population.

Off with the class!

[Rhifox]

Remove. Ban. Murder, death kill!

I die a little inside, each time a Favored soul calls himself "Dreadlord, Dawnmaster, High Watchknight" etc...

There is nowhere in the lore of the 3.5 where a Favored soul is put in the spot light.

Well, not by that name or class at least. But there's plenty of "favored souls" in the form of the Chosens of X. Usually that's something earned through active duty rather than given for nothing, though.

[DM Galatea]

My own personal opinion is that it is a rubbish class people take because they don't want to be rubbish. I talk every FvS paladin I can out of their build at the earliest opportunity.

It emboldens my blackened heart to see so many hate this class as much as I do

[AlwaysSummer Day]

According to this poll http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=50181 human is the most common race followed by elf. I am 99% sure neutral is the most common alignment. I digress though. It seems the majority want the class removed. Damn near everyone at least wants it nerfed. One or two people want everything else in the game buffed. So ya, good luck qc.

[mrm3ntalist]

My own personal opinion is that it is a rubbish class people take because they don't want to be rubbish. I talk every FvS paladin I can out of their build at the earliest opportunity.

It emboldens my blackened heart to see so many hate this class as much as I do

For real, if the FS RP of being favored of a deity is what bothers you so much, change the description of the class to something else.

RP or how well you rp a class is not a balance concern.

[NegInfinity]

QC as once again discussed FS, and its relative power to other classes. While we're still discussing it, we would like to get some community input on how you all feel about this suggestion. It is as follows:

Change Favored Soul spellcasting to require wisdom to cast spells, but using charisma for DCs.

It would effectively use the same setup as spirit shaman in that case, which would make both divine spellbooks have one casting class with purely wisdom (cleric, druid) and one class with wisdom for spells and charisma for DCs (spirit shaman, favored soul).

This would change how FS works without influencing any other class which is key. One can still build for an FS with Epic divine might, but the ability points would be more strained and you would get less spells doing so than currently (although, the DCs go up a bit). It will also have slightly better synergy for DC favored souls.

Anyway, nothing is decided yet. Let us know what you think about this. It would of course have the 100% RCR still apply to allow people to adjust, if implemented.

No. No homebrewing.

If you want to limit its power, make it application only.

[JCVD1]

Remove. Ban. Murder, death kill!

I die a little inside, each time a Favored soul calls himself "Dreadlord, Dawnmaster, High Watchknight" etc...

There is nowhere in the lore of the 3.5 where a Favored soul is put in the spot light.

Well, not by that name or class at least. But there's plenty of "favored souls" in the form of the Chosens of X. Usually that's something earned through active duty rather than given for nothing, though.

You had to remind me....

[AlwaysSummer Day]

No. No homebrewing.

If you want to limit its power, make it application only.

Because no other classes have been altered for balance. Oh. Wait.

[NegInfinity]

No. No homebrewing.

If you want to limit its power, make it application only.

Because no other classes have been altered for balance. Oh. Wait.

Not funny, and I'm not in the mood.

Basically it goes like this.

Changing casting mechanics of FS will trigger wave of RCRs.
Then some previously unforseen issue will arise. (monk/fs overlord someone mentiond on the first page. Or maybe some sort of other wis-related combo. I don't know).
The issue will cause hugh debate in proposal section, because someone will find a way to abuse it.
Then after months of hot debates, someone will either revert casting mechanics back, OR create new proposal.
In each case there will be another wave of RCR, and if that was a different proposal, it'll, once again trigger heavy debates and uncover some other exploit.

Basically, it is a great way to waste half a year or more.

In light of that, I see the whole idea of changing class casting mechanics as a pointless waste of time that'll drain developer and QC resource that would be better spent elsewhere. When you address one mechanical problem, you'll create 50 problems that didn't exist before. It is D&D. It is not MEANT to be balanced.

The only issue with FS is that there *might* be people that take the class for power only, and don't play the corresponding god-related part of it, reducing the enjoyment. So I think that instead of trying to fix the unfixable, it would be better idea to ensure that whoever plays FS, knows the role and creates believable character. Meaning application-only. That makes sense. Trying to patch the D&D and make it "balanced" or "fair" is a battle you cannot win.

Also, wasn't there enough threads about FS, "balancing" and whatnot over years?

[Maximvs]

The more a server is action oriented, the more favored soul is a problem. In pnp, favored souls do not get to climb high the ladder, as their spells are very limited compared to a real cleric.

[Steve]

well i suppose one option for that would be to turn it into a PrC and cut it down to 10 levels

OMG...I can't believe BMD agreed/shared an idea with me. It must be kismet.

[Blackman D]

did not!

[Young Werther]

If you were a demon lord you'd probably call them flavored souls amirite?

I woke up one morning and realized I had turned into a cockaroach favored soul.

Yall complain about DM favortism but what about the gods' favortism. Saying I am 'x's favored without DM approval seems like godmoding the hypethetical god NPC.

That said changes like this won't effect me as I refuse to play the class under any circumstances but it will piss some people off.. the change proposed seems like a lite nerf however.

[Steve]

did not!

Subject: Possible QC change - Community input appreciated

I would prefer to see the Class removed.

However, there are some that may truly miss the RP aspect of a favored soul:

"Mortals who perform great services to deities, devoting their lives and work to the cause of their god or goddess, sometimes become the Chosen of that deity."

So as an unsolicited suggestion, could the Favored Soul be made a 10 level PrC, with keeping the existing 1–10 level progression, but putting Weapon Specialization on the 10th level? Maybe even reduce spell progression to 7/10?

The WIS/CHA switch doesn't really appear to be a fix for OPness, just a change of build plans.

[Moridin]

Well, this is one of the classes that in pnp grows wings so...
I've read the rest of the thread since my previous posts and I'm for nerfing it. How though, I do not know yet. Possibly by giving them spirit shaman spell progression, possibly by removing some of their free feats. As one can see, in comparison to similar classes, is gets alot more than classes that are similar to it. Am I allowed to post screenshots of the relevant tables considering I own the books in question?