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Re: Ideas to help new players settle on BG

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:02 pm
by ginsu
I have an idea. Might be not the best, but might be very funny!

Santus (my toon) is trying to do everything he can to support Beregost. The last episode of his quest to improve the life of the locals was the charity festival to raise funds to improve the life of the poor folks of the town (I'm still dieing of curiosity to learn if/how that will impact the city somehow :D ).

I will make some small events and reward players from my own pockets with quests like (bring X ammount of food, so I can feed even more ppl, bring X wolf/bears/etc skins to improve the commerce of the town, X healing potions/healing kits to treat patients, and small quests like this. I will reward new players that embark on those quests, wich will also encourage them to travel by the map, kill easier creatures, etc. Will be a win x win to everybody.

This is what I think I can do to help, and will do, it will be fun :D

Anyone would like to support me on this? :)

Re: Ideas to help new players settle on BG

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:52 pm
by izzul
ginsu wrote:I have an idea. Might be not the best, but might be very funny!

Santus (my toon) is trying to do everything he can to support Beregost. The last episode of his quest to improve the life of the locals was the charity festival to raise funds to improve the life of the poor folks of the town (I'm still dieing of curiosity to learn if/how that will impact the city somehow :D ).

I will make some small events and reward players from my own pockets with quests like (bring X ammount of food, so I can feed even more ppl, bring X wolf/bears/etc skins to improve the commerce of the town, X healing potions/healing kits to treat patients, and small quests like this. I will reward new players that embark on those quests, wich will also encourage them to travel by the map, kill easier creatures, etc. Will be a win x win to everybody.

This is what I think I can do to help, and will do, it will be fun :D

Anyone would like to support me on this? :)
+10

Re: Ideas to help new players settle on BG

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:26 am
by Sun Wukong
Rask wrote:You basically can't solo level a mage, which causes people to make a fighter/barbarian and level it to 20 then RCR it into a magic user. Kind of not really a fun way to make proper progression. I remember things being much easier on new players in the past than it is now. Nobody likes to die to BS like being insta-stripped of spells then cast-spammed over and over for 25+ damage a round when your casters HP is only like 30. This basically forces people to do the aforementioned leveling style of using a fighter to grind out most of the levels and abusing the RCR system. It's either that or you have fun grinding for 10XP a kill and going nowhere.
Actually you can... But the problem is always going to be that players do not know what to do. For example back in those 'good old days' the server had these superfast wolves that one shot killed any character with less than 8 HP, and those buggers tended to spawn very close to each other.

The only way to kill those wolves at level one was to get a heavy crossbow and just hope, hope that your dexterity modifier of at least 3 was good enough to nail few hits before they cought up to you.

Well, back then there was no rest limitation so you could kind of make do with magic missile spam... But then again... most new arcanists took nothing but defensive spells at level 1, and even if you did, well you wanted to keep those early slots for defensive buffs to avoid dying... And that one lonely magic missile was not enough to kill a wolf.



Thesedays, if you go to the graveyard, the damage reductions make heavy crossbow nearly useless. You need to keep switching between slashing/bludgeoing to go past the damage reductions. However, the good thing is that you can kill most things by just dealing around 4 points of damage. Thus a single magic missile could be enough to kill one undead - and Sorcerous Sundries does sell staffs with endless cast of caster level one spells.

The only problem is that the Staff of Magic Missile can cost your character up to 4k~, and by the time a brand new player on a brand new character can afford it, they tend to have overleveled its useage. The Staf of Frost is cheaper and can be gotten for 1.5K~ and is a feasible option after running some of the quests near BG... However, the only place where that is useful is the Bandit Cave, which is kind of hidden on the northside of the Baldur's Gate - two transitions required while graveyard only takes one. Not to mention that to get these staffs you still need to know to look for them in the Sorcerous Sundries... If you have not played the original BG, how would you know where to look?

As for the amount of experience, actually that '10 points of experience' per kill has remained the constant for the... how to put it kindly... 'RP builds' over the years. What has changed, however, is the number of maps. Thus the mobs give less experience than they used to as there are more areas you can explore.

And as others have discussed, if you do not know where to go or what to do, exploration can lead to death and repeated experience penalty. Well... That is until you learn to abuse the fact that you are not pushed down a level.

So, if you want to make things easier for the new players, remove the death penalty. If you just postpone it to level 10 - then they get get hit with a sudden 1k experience loss, and it will come out of the blue even if they have read about it in the Myrkul dialogue. Now as for five free deaths, that actually serves the old established players more than new ones. It is very easy to get rid of all your free deaths just trying to figure out the graveyard... So... Why not just remove the experience penalty altogether and implement some kind level based timer before you can get back in game? :mrgreen:



Edit: I mean it would make Steve happier!

Me: *Dies once and wants to get back all the lost experience, so I go do a mindless quest grind.*

A random Steve pops up: 'I want to RP with you, CAREBEARSTARE-style!'

Me: *Glare that would send chills to the back of a pitfiend, and they are on FIRE!*

That random Steve: 'But--- But, RP!'

Me: *NO!*

That sad Steve: 'Fine.' *Sobs.*

Re: Ideas to help new players settle on BG

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:06 am
by professiondude
New idea to help players settle on BG.






Join the Order


kappa jk enjoy the night ;P

Re: Ideas to help new players settle on BG

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:39 am
by Face
My last friend that played a few weeks ago stoped playing after 2 hours cous of the load times.

Re: fighter 30?

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:22 am
by Steve
Comments Only wrote:Edit: I mean it would make Steve happier!

Me: *Dies once and wants to get back all the lost experience, so I go do a mindless quest grind.*

A random Steve pops up: 'I want to RP with you, CAREBEARSTARE-style!'

Me: *Glare that would send chills to the back of a pitfiend, and they are on FIRE!*

That random Steve: 'But--- But, RP!'

Me: *NO!*

That sad Steve: 'Fine.' *Sobs.*
Who you calling a carebear, eh monkey-man?!? ;)

Why do people want to make the challenges +/- the learning curve easier? Giving better information and being supportive of the RP experience is one thing, but making this Server even easier than it has already been recently changed, seems counter productive.

That said, it would seem the simplest option to up the At Creation coin amount from 1,000 to 5,000–10,000 coin. That way our Level 1 "heroic stature" adventures can become very well outfitted to survive the first few PvE experiences.

Re: fighter 30?

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:24 am
by Steve
Face wrote:My last friend that played a few weeks ago stoped playing after 2 hours cous of the load times.
Yeah, the load times when the Server is occupied at 55+ players are super annoying. But you'd have to ask Staff if anything can be done on that front.

Re: Ideas to help new players settle on BG

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:26 am
by ZestyDragon
Another thing that would help is adding level caps back on chests. Nothing more annoying then slowly exploring hilltop ruins with a friend, and having a high level run past you both with no RP killing the boss and mobs because they hadn't got their reset loot yet.

Re: Ideas to help new players settle on BG

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:35 am
by Glowfire
ZestyDragon wrote:Another thing that would help is adding level caps back on chests. Nothing more annoying then slowly exploring hilltop ruins with a friend, and having a high level run past you both with no RP killing the boss and mobs because they hadn't got their reset loot yet.
This is actually against the server rules. The 'fix' isn't to restore chest level caps but to report these kind of players so DMs can have a talk with them and hopefully they change their behaviour.

Re: Ideas to help new players settle on BG

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:50 am
by chad878262
chambordini wrote:That last point can probably be addressed mechanically by having the triggers that spawn the bosses function similarly to the chests, once per reset per character. Same with corpses and skeletons, as TS suggested in the IRC.

It would fix all your usual drama related to people running past someone else already in the dungeon and invalidate that rule hopefully. It's a silly rule.
What happens if the first player is hidden on the scry, and when the first player notices someone broke the rule on them, should they ever send a tell to the other player?

Are we supposed to call this a RP server when characters have to mold their behavior on such an OOC rule?

Stop it right there, fix the issue mechanically and erase that rule and all mention of it.
Genius. +1

Though I suppose some of the players that 'farm' bosses will be upset. :P

Also, the surface is HUGE and chests in hilltop ruins may occassionally drop something that will earn you 5-20K on Mudd's, but as an epic character aren't there far more profitable dungeons to run? I can't imagine running the Underdark when chests had level caps...It's small enough as it is without cutting the few areas you can adventure in half.

Re: Ideas to help new players settle on BG

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:23 am
by dedude
It happens more often than you think. A few times I have sent a tell to the person, and usually get a reply that they are just grinding, as if that makes it okay. I try to ignore them, but it can be hard when they run past you and kill the mobs you are fighting with a single spell/attack and then run on without a word. That's when I get the urge to spend some time away from the computer.

Re: Ideas to help new players settle on BG

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:29 am
by ZestyDragon
Glowfire wrote:
ZestyDragon wrote:Another thing that would help is adding level caps back on chests. Nothing more annoying then slowly exploring hilltop ruins with a friend, and having a high level run past you both with no RP killing the boss and mobs because they hadn't got their reset loot yet.
This is actually against the server rules. The 'fix' isn't to restore chest level caps but to report these kind of players so DMs can have a talk with them and hopefully they change their behaviour.
Its an impossible thing to prove, So an impossible rule to enforce unless a DM takes one persons word over another.
chambordini wrote:That last point can probably be addressed mechanically by having the triggers that spawn the bosses function similarly to the chests, once per reset per character. Same with corpses and skeletons, as TS suggested in the IRC.

It would fix all your usual drama related to people running past someone else already in the dungeon and invalidate that rule hopefully. It's a silly rule.
What happens if the first player is hidden on the scry, and when the first player notices someone broke the rule on them, should they ever send a tell to the other player?

Are we supposed to call this a RP server when characters have to mold their behavior on such an OOC rule?

Stop it right there, fix the issue mechanically and erase that rule and all mention of it.
That solves the issues of the dead boss, Not the high levels blowing through low level areas without RP. Its very off putting for someone looking for RP and exploring an area rather then grinding.
It happens more often than you think. A few times I have sent a tell to the person, and usually get a reply that they are just grinding, as if that makes it okay. I try to ignore them, but it can be hard when they run past you and kill the mobs you are fighting with a single spell/attack and then run on without a word. That's when I get the urge to spend some time away from the computer.
Yea the killing your monsters part is equally annoying, I mean we are low level it takes a few hits does not mean we require help or want to lose the xp. Especially when the player then continues running off after without so much as a word.

Re: Ideas to help new players settle on BG

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:32 am
by chad878262
Were it me, I would respond to them that they are killing the mobs / bosses in a low level dungeon in order to grind low level loot chests while a low level party is trying to RP in the dungeon. If they refuse to vacate/grind elsewhere I'd screenshot the conversation log and send it to the DM's. I like to grind chests on the off chance I can get something decent as much as the next person, but never at the expense of folks that are trying to RP. Either take a few minutes to RP with the people or, at a minimum use spells/items to avoid the bosses so you minimize the impact on the people actually RP'ing/adventuring in the area. Anything less is inconsiderate to your fellow gamers and just bush league stuff. Especially on the surface there are dozens of solid looting areas and going to the hilltop ruins is just flat out greedy. Not that this means it should be off limits, but it should absolutely require a quick check of scry before running in, or at a minimum avoiding the boss battles so that the RP/Party can be challenged by them, rather than the epic getting 1 XP and an extra empty ale stein.

Re: Ideas to help new players settle on BG

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:43 am
by Rhifox
Honestly, as someone that has done the 'run past' thing... (to which I apologize to dedude for, I was trying out the "looting thing" and I was rushing since I was annoyed with it and just wanted to get finished as soon as possible. Since then I don't really do looting except for during weekly quests since frankly it is not fun. It's a bloody chore and it makes people adventuring in those areas upset. The gold isn't worth that.)

I also feel the chest level caps should be added back on. I have no idea why they were removed in the first place. It means that high level people spend every reset circle looting lower level areas, while the higher level areas go largely unused. Before the caps were removed, if you wanted to loot there was often high level groups going through higher level areas on a regular basis that you could join in on. Those were at least somewhat challenging to do and if you were in a group they could be fun, just not as frequent (though that's actually a positive, in my book. I want to hang myself just doing weekly quests, I can't understand how people do the looting thing every single reset). There's no such thing now, it's just circle looting low level areas and inflating the server economy (the hell vendor is only going to be a sink for so long, eventually most people will have what they need from it).

Re: Ideas to help new players settle on BG

Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:51 am
by Steve
This just happened to me last week:

Image

Was in a dungeon, got a drive-by-killing-of-mobs by a certain PC, and tried to IC RP. Was ignored. Contacted the Player OOC—who by the way IS NOT a newbie—and had unproductive chat. :|

You think my telling the DMs is going to change this Player's behavior?

My point is: if you have a Server that is forwarding—intentionally or not—that grinding/looting/questing/Server Runs are the way to most efficiently and greatly level+gear+power up your Player Character, the culture thus bred slowly destroys even the graciousness to RP on a supposed "Role-play" first Server.

Flip the script.