Divine Power

[izzul]

Edit: If there is one thing that needs a magnifying glass in this game, it's Expose Weakness. Every power build takes it, caster or melee, if at all possible. It stacks with itself, and leads to 3 level dips for no other reason than to acquire it. Why not talk about making it a full round action, having its duration equal the the Dex modifier to a max of five, double the cooldown to 12 seconds, or even add a requirement for 27 Spot. There are broken things out there deserving of witch hunts.

This

We should have a look at Frienzied berzerker too.. Divine Power FV/Cleric will have to hit monster for quite some time until it dies. Not too strong and OP as it only increases BAB and some other benefits.

some FB will need only 2 crits or 2 hits and strongest monster will go down easily in a second.

What if the requirement changed to 10 lvl in FB to be able to get the extra 24 damage. This way, people have to really utilize FB levels to gain the most benefit of it

///personally, i just hope all classes wont be changed, just stay as they are.

[Nachti]

Im a big fan of the idea that bosses shouldn't be for ppl to solo it.

Bosses are spawned by triggers. Scripters propably could add a variable and a script that checks for players in the area so bosses only spawn "if there are worthy opponents (3+ players)".

[Blackman D]

What if the requirement changed to 10 lvl in FB to be able to get the extra 24 damage. This way, people have to really utilize FB levels to gain the most benefit of it

non caster classes are usually viewed as being behind the power curb, 5 FB being one way to get extra damage for them, why would you want to nerf non casters

Bosses are spawned by triggers. Scripters propably could add a variable and a script that checks for players in the area so bosses only spawn "if there are worthy opponents (3+ players)".

a rather horrid item honestly... so you would want it so instead of people soloing a boss they can just solo walk into the area and loot everything without resistance?

[hksturbo]

Leave it alone you want divine power make a cleric or fs it's not like they can one shot bosses like mages so........no more gimping classes please

[ginsu]

Just saying, did anyone see a cleric do well in the tournament we just had?

I didn't.

But I did see fellas striking 1 hit kill in toons with over 400 health.

I do not agree with the "witch hunt", but again, there are better targets then the divine casters...

[AC81]

That would be a pretty major change, but no the breach change (which happened several updates ago and is documented) is the following : randomized, death ward added to breach list.

It's a major change, true. But I think it's one that is needed. Randomising the breach order only hurts arcanes more. At least before they knew which spells would get stripped and in what order, now no idea.
I can't think of one good reason why ALL spells wouldn't be on the breach list. Is there a valid reason?

[Nachti]

Agree on breach.

[Steve]

If Spell Breach were to affect all spells, then ramdomizing it is probably best, because since there is no Save or SR against Breach, it would become an extremely, reliable boring and rote experience to see the same spells breached in the same order, every damn time.

What I do like about All Spells on the random Breach list, is that some non-essential spells could get eaten up, like Light or Whatever, which then gives a nice balance to what a Caster loses, or may lose.

[Calodan]

If Spell Breach were to affect all spells, then ramdomizing it is probably best, because since there is no Save or SR against Breach, it would become an extremely, reliable boring and rote experience to see the same spells breached in the same order, every damn time.

What I do like about All Spells on the random Breach list, is that some non-essential spells could get eaten up, like Light or Whatever, which then gives a nice balance to what a Caster loses, or may lose.

And then vice versa every spell is also on the dispel list randomized if it can be dispelled? Would that actually make things a more fair use of breach and dispel overall? Would that put arcane and divine gish's more on a level in the magic classes? In my mind making every spell subject to either dispel or breach on a randomized effect would be best. Then maybe we can move on from nerfing much of anything currently and let the team concentrate on helping non-magic classes with whatever needs to be done to help them be more viable since it is agreed upon by most of the server that non-magic suffers the most with the exception of HIPs PCs in my mind. Talking about more of the pure sword and board styles or the archer that is not a HIPs or UMD user....(is not even suggested to try this. I made one it sucked here).

[Blackman D]

And then vice versa every spell is also on the dispel list randomized if it can be dispelled?

this doesnt make too much sense tho, each spell already rolls vs dispel so the randomness more or less comes down to the d20 if you are in the range to be affected by the dispel

the difference is aside from mords, you can get your caster level up enough to not worry about the lesser forms of dispel

[Sun Wukong]

So let us discuss about the net good of breach affecting all spells. (It does not really matter whether is random or not.)

• A lesser Breach will strip 2 buffs, a greater breach will strip 4 buffs, and that mord will strip 6 and whatever else it happens to dispell.
• Clerics, Favored Souls, Druids, Spirits Shamans, Wizards, and Sorcerers all have 9 levels of spells to choose from. They can buff themselves up with spells that they do not actually need in hopes of eating few breaches before losing the spell they wish to keep.
• Bards will be able to do the same to an extent - as they have 6 levels of spells to choose from. But it does not change the fact that they will be stripped naked more easily, even though their spontaneous spell casting may allow them to rebuff to some extent.
• Paladins and Rangers will face the full blow of this change. They have only 4 levels of spells and the smallest amount of memorized spells available. A wisdom based ranger may be able to rebuff once or twice, but that is the exception to the rule. A single lesser breach is enough to tear away my ranger's bark skin and halo of sand. A single greater breach will strip away buffs from my animal companion. And a single greater breach or a mord is enough to gimp a Paladin. Thus, if an area has any form of breach casting mobs - a ranger and a paladin will be forced to stay away - or just have really bad time.
• From a PvP point of view; I suppose those Frenzied Weapon enthusiasts will like how their wands of Lesser Breach might be a lot more useful, or not.
• From a PvE point of view; I suppose those wands of lesser breach might become a lot more useful to overcome spells that grant damage resistance.
• So is this change going to generate enough net good to excuse burying Paladins and Rangers back to the bottom of the never used barrel? Their caster level progression and spell books were expanded to make them more appealing, simply because these classes were not appealing in the least. This breach change would reverse the situation back to what it was before.

If breaches had some base class check to make sure the target is Wizard/Sorcerer/Druid/Spirit Shaman/Cleric/Favored Soul berefore stripping away spells - you could have this change without ruining Rangers and Paladins in the process. Honestly, otherwise, the only reason to go for Ranger is the weapon style feats, and an EDM dip for the Paladin.

[Steve]

A Ranger or Paladin can survive a majority of combat situations without their buffs/magic.

[chad878262]

There are certain spells that cannot be breached, even if we included every spell. If we wanted to even things out IMO we should do away with breach and increase greater dispel to +25 max bonus, which would equate to CL 30 being subject to greater dispel up to 25% per buff. It would likely have about the same effect and dispel effects all caster buffs equally. I would also remove auto strip from mords, or lower it and make the focus on the dispel check. A CL 30 mords will strip 50% of a CL30 characters buffs just based on the dispel check so there is no need to first stip via breach mechanics.

[Sun Wukong]

A Ranger or Paladin can survive a majority of combat situations without their buffs/magic.

So what is a ranger or a paladin to you? Something with a 11 or a 4 level dip?

A level 30 ranger or a paladin without their buffs is basically a fighter without the fighter bonus feats. Perhaps you never played one on this server before the ranger/paladin buffs, because that - 'survive a majority of combat situations' - is a phrase born out of ignorance. And it is born out of ignorance, because anything can 'survive a majority of combat situations' by the virtue of being over leveled against the CR of the area.



*A deep, deep breath.*

There are certain spells that cannot be breached, even if we included every spell. If we wanted to even things out IMO we should do away with breach and increase greater dispel to +25 max bonus, which would equate to CL 30 being subject to greater dispel up to 25% per buff. It would likely have about the same effect and dispel effects all caster buffs equally. I would also remove auto strip from mords, or lower it and make the focus on the dispel check. A CL 30 mords will strip 50% of a CL30 characters buffs just based on the dispel check so there is no need to first stip via breach mechanics.

- Will you also add weapons with some percentage of casting those 25% dispels or adamantium weapons? Because otherwise, you got those frenzied weapon enthusiasts complaining about 30 DR premonitions.

[Valefort]

yeah, rangers and paladins do not like being dispelled and they lose a whole lot when they are, putting all their spells on the breach list would severely weaken them.