Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

the_flame_of_anor wrote:

chad878262 wrote: Final point. RCR to change a build impacts the rp of other players. If there were no cost it hurts rp. Thus arguing to support multiple pay styles is not a valid argument for a change when it adversely impacts other play styles.

While I take your point about the various exploits, I would have to disagree with this. The current RCR system will still give rise to your concern about flippant RCR's adverse impact on other's RP.

What my opening post suggests is a RCR system that is friendlier for late epics who, for character/RP or pragmatic reasons or both, can't bring themselves to go through the "chore" of re-levelling their epic levels all over again. I even suggested a 1mil gold payment for such a system. I don't think people will just throw away 1mil gold to change their builds on a whim (which, as your concern goes, adversely affects others RP).

And even if they do so, this is a self-selecting process, isn't it? Such players will just end up playing more with fellow RP-lite players. The more serious RPers will probably avoid them like a plague. I believe we already have such player-segmentations in our community, but hey, we try to be tolerant of all play styles, right?

My earlier points on play styles were in response to Valefort's question to me. As mentioned above, whether RCR 50% or 100%, you are still going to get some people who would RCR on a whim, just at different character levels and at different stages of their RP.

But your simply submitting to require one resource (gold) instead of the other (XP/levels). The issue is that this would be seen as supporting one play style (loot grinding) over others (such as RP)... This is not a path that would be beneficial to take the server as we would have complaints about 'forcing' players to loot grind so they can 'afford' their full RCR... You can gain XP from RP or killing mobs and opening chests. Running around opening chests is going to earn gold a LOT faster than RP'ing through dungeons at a walk with a party doing adventure RP. Both PC's at level 30 currently have the same penalty (going back to 20). Allowing to pay gold for full RCR changes that structure to favor the loot grinder.

The 'every 6 months' full RCR and similar idea's have been discussed and turned down so I don't personally see that changing either.

I imagine one big problem with 6 months is that it could not be automated. Given the number of PCs that would have to be done (and checked) manually.

Winterborne wrote:I personally think a solid middle ground would be to allow for 100% RCR if you haven't done it in 6 months. There's enough custom content added/changed on a regular basis here that I would like to not have to just make a new character to experience.

I definitely took advantage of the RCR period recently to be able to take skills that didn't exist back when I started levelling my character like some of the split lore skills and escape artist, even though nothing major about my character concept changed - it was just that instead of having some filler points with nothing good to spend them on, I could instead use them on RP oriented skills.

That would be a good idea, though I would prefer 2 months instead.

chad878262 wrote: But your simply submitting to require one resource (gold) instead of the other (XP/levels). The issue is that this would be seen as supporting one play style (loot grinding) over others (such as RP)... This is not a path that would be beneficial to take the server as we would have complaints about 'forcing' players to loot grind so they can 'afford' their full RCR... You can gain XP from RP or killing mobs and opening chests. Running around opening chests is going to earn gold a LOT faster than RP'ing through dungeons at a walk with a party doing adventure RP. Both PC's at level 30 currently have the same penalty (going back to 20). Allowing to pay gold for full RCR changes that structure to favor the loot grinder.

The 'every 6 months' full RCR and similar idea's have been discussed and turned down so I don't personally see that changing either.

Yes, I recognize this perspective and see where you are coming from. In terms of resource, I see it more as gold versus time. And in fact, the flip side of your point (which I don't necessarily disagree with btw) is that the server currently lacks an option for those who would prefer to use gold instead of time to reclaim back lost epic levels for RCR purposes, thus 'forcing' everyone to sacrifice time as the resource instead. Your point is that this levels the playing field, while mine is... well, I've repeated my arguments several times already in this thread .

I suppose a certain parallel can be drawn with the issue of phat lootz -- use gold to access the hell shop, or use time to appease the almighty RIG. At least there is the gold option here...

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I like the 'every 6 months' RCR idea too.

Yeah, I've been using the "must cater to all playstyles" argument in a tongue-in-cheek manner for months now and nobody ever seems to notice. It's absolutely ridiculous. You can use it as a basis to support literally any viewpoint just by flipping the perspective around.

I think it's a good idea for a gold sink, man. And I have no time to grind gold, so that's at least one vote for what I would see as the greater good even though I would never use it or benefit from it.

We need more creative brainstorming likes this that can simultaneously address multiple issues in a positive way.

Thorsson wrote:I imagine one big problem with 6 months is that it could not be automated. Given the number of PCs that would have to be done (and checked) manually.

It can be. We can provide eligibility at intervals based on the BIC creation datetime. Six months is too soon in my opinion; one year from creation is suitable and not bound to RCR scheduled timeframes that're static to the whole module.

I really think the RCR is fine the way it is and this is coming from someone who has been here a while. I have no problem loosing some of the XP.

I have a different solution.

Allow characters of level 30 to effectively have a "bank" of XP that they can spend any way they choose. For example.

Level 30 char running around killing things Gains XP, since he is at the level cap the XP is added to a bank which can be used by ANY character that player has. Leave the RCR as it is. if they RCR they can get a max of 20 however they can then apply XP from the bank if they choose.

This would allow people to play different characters etc and allow XP to be relevant no matter what level you are. You are still earning the XP and you will still have some loss to a RCR but you can gain it back through another means.

It also gives people the choice of Making a new character from level one or starting further along BUT THEY STILL WOULD OF EARNED THE XP. So nothing is free.

There's a laundry list of exploitation that would join that suggestion.

Surely there are things that could be put in place? or hell even put a cap on it so that you cant store more than X amount of XP no?

Aspect of Sorrow wrote:It can be. We can provide eligibility at intervals based on the BIC creation datetime. Six months is too soon in my opinion; one year from creation is suitable and not bound to RCR scheduled timeframes that're static to the whole module.

I see no essential difference between 6 months and a year; both are too long for people to be doing casual RCRing.

Logically, aside from changes to the game (which is a separate issue), why is there a need to RCR? There isn't. RCR is there as a *reward* for the time spent in game. On that basis there is no justification at all for 100% RCR, with all its inherent problems. The complaint arises from the time needed to level back up to 30.

That's what needs to be fixed, because there is no logical reason for it at all - it's just a way of delaying people getting to 30.

As I point out elsewhere, all these issues tie into one another (the 100% RCR exploits tie back to 3b20) and are an inherent result of the lack of logic in many of BGTSCC's rules, whose only virtue is that they've been around for years.

RCR is used as a reward for time spent in game but it is supposed to be an incentive to retire old characters. A very ill-conceived idea as far as I'm concerned since it implies that leveling is indeed a chore.

For the goal it had in the beginning it's even an utter failure since it furthers the lifespan of many characters through build tweaks (I'm not saying that last point is a bad thing).

Leveling has never been faster on the server yet for some it's still too slow, likewise getting good or epic gear has never been easier. These two parameters are probably the most important ones to alter the time needed for a PC to reach his full potential mechanically wise.

Fast leveling, ease to find items allow people to make throw away characters. There's already a noticeable propensity of doing so, which kills RP. Is that any good for the server ? No, this turns it more into an action server than a RP one.

I feel we're in the "poll about candy" situation. The time needed for a character to reach his full potential, mechanically, should remain at least as long as it is now. It was already reduced very significantly.

I would like the RCR guy to have a 'relevel my character' option, just strips the toon to 1 and gives the xp back. Its so easy on a server with as many custom choices as this one to make mistakes in your character. The option to RCR is great and much appreciated but the quality of life options it offers could be made easier to manage/use. I would also charge 1k gold per character level up to 20, and 10k for each level after (120k at CL30).

It may make some characters a tiny bit better, but for some of us its more about trying some of the options before we commit to them.

Valefort wrote:The time needed for a character to reach his full potential, mechanically, should remain at least as long as it is now. It was already reduced very significantly

Agreed, but the time from 1-20 should be increased while the time from 21-30 should be decreased. As it stands right now 1-20 is WAY too easy to reach as you can go to some area's from 12-20 where you can gain XP at INSANE clips such as 5-7K per hour by killing mobs for 60+ XP with no risk by using specific consumables. There are area's 1-12 where you earn 50+ XP and considering the lower needed XP to reach a level you are basically talking ~25-30 hours to go from 1-20.

20+ on the other hand is brutally slow. You need more XP per level and at best you are getting 30 XP per kill if you can find a party. Otherwise you generally need to 'settle' for 20-25 XP per kill in an area you can handle on your own. Other than one noticeable exception due to spawn rate you're lucky to earn 1,500-2,000 XP per hour, which equates to ~10-15 hours per level, unless you run the same quest every week (which will eventually erode your soul to an empty husk).

This needs to be somewhat normalize, but I'm not saying it should be equal. Reducing the XP 1-20 down to being 50 max with easier/soloable areas being around 40 would put it where it was before the increase a few months ago. Increasing Epics to be ~35-40 max would be a great place to start.

Fast leveling, ease to find items allow people to make throw away characters. There's already a noticeable propensity of doing so, which kills RP. Is that any good for the server ? No, this turns it more into an action server than a RP one.

some would say the dynamic spawn system takes the server in the direction of an action server as well. it's all a matter of perspective

Valefort wrote: Fast leveling, ease to find items allow people to make throw away characters. There's already a noticeable propensity of doing so, which kills RP. Is that any good for the server ? No, this turns it more into an action server than a RP one.

I feel we're in the "poll about candy" situation. The time needed for a character to reach his full potential, mechanically, should remain at least as long as it is now. It was already reduced very significantly.

You're playing differently. You need to realize that there are different playstyles. You prefer "grow up from level 1". I prefer "have a concept and see what it can do", and "grow up from level 1" for me was only fun the first 3 times. While a concept-based character may not participate in political intrigues for years, it will still provide a character to interact with for everybody else.

chad878262 wrote: Agreed, but the time from 1-20 should be increased while the time from 21-30 should be decreased.

That is not a very good idea. The fun part on the server is level 1 to 10, past that point it becomes less and less fun, and after level 15 it is a chore.