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They are really, really not. Shamans are not part of a specific type of organization/class like druids where there are tons of very specific rules. Paladins and druids are the two classes with the most lore restrictions.
Sorcerers were good before. Like VERY good. Now, regarding spell books, there is no reason to pick a wizard over a sorcerer. Now they can cover all aspects of spell casting ( DC, blasting, controlling, buffs ) AND have alternatives. Now it is easy mode for sorcsRhifox wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:27 amNo, because they already have and *still* know more than sorcs. One of the reasons I was in favor of the sorc change - I already feel limited enough as shaman, so when I found out how few they get I was appalled. How did you even function like that? :pmrm3ntalist wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:23 am
BTW did Spirit Shamans get an extra spell per level like sorcerers?
Aside from the superior lore of wizards. *haughty*mrm3ntalist wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:33 amSorcerers were good before. Like VERY good. Now, regarding spell books, there is no reason to pick a wizard over a sorcerer.
Well saidRhifox wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:36 amAside from the superior lore of wizards. *haughty*mrm3ntalist wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:33 amSorcerers were good before. Like VERY good. Now, regarding spell books, there is no reason to pick a wizard over a sorcerer.
I can say nothing against thatI always thought it was paladins and clerics and never really saw druids as restrictive. Learn something new every dayRhifox wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:29 amThey are really, really not. Shamans are not part of a specific type of organization/class like druids where there are tons of very specific rules. Paladins and druids are the two classes with the most lore restrictions.
Which is why my Spirit Shamans have always followed Akadi, which is the best deity in the entire game, and for no other reason that she just tells adventurers to go out figure their own philosophical problems without pestering her! Go out and try new things, etc.
The one perk that wizards have is still their extra feats, you can just pick feats that would not be as available to a Sorcerer build. For example, if I had to choose between a Wizard 30 or a Sorcerer 30, I would go for Wizard 30 without a moment of hesitation. After all, a Wizard 30 can quite literally get Epic Spell Focus Transmutation and Conjuration, in addition to Augment Form and Augment Summoning, and some other third school of magic if you want. Thus, if I want to throw high DC spells, I can. If I want to play as a gish, I can use Polymorph and Shapechange and get 22 BAB. If I want to lead a horde of summons, I can thanks to Conjuration changes.Rhifox wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:36 amAside from the superior lore of wizards. *haughty*:Pmrm3ntalist wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:33 amSorcerers were good before. Like VERY good. Now, regarding spell books, there is no reason to pick a wizard over a sorcerer.
True, but the bonus feat is for making a strong build. The casters power is to have the right spell available for a situation. If the get 1 DC or AC higher or lower wont matter much, as long as they have that spell. Sorcerers will most likely have a casting.YYA wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:48 amThe one perk that wizards have is still their extra feats, you can just pick feats that would not be as available to a Sorcerer build. For example, if I had to choose between a Wizard 30 or a Sorcerer 30, I would go for Wizard 30 without a moment of hesitation. After all, a Wizard 30 can quite literally get Epic Spell Focus Transmutation and Conjuration, in addition to Augment Form and Augment Summoning, and some other third school of magic if you want. Thus, if I want to throw high DC spells, I can. If I want to play as a gish, I can use Polymorph and Shapechange and get 22 BAB. If I want to lead a horde of summons, I can thanks to Conjuration changes.
Shamans will be restricted by the demands of the spirits they follow, the culture and traditions of their individual community, and so on. They have their religious strictures, but it's very much based on individual and community. Heck, in many RL cultures, shamans often come from those considered different in some way. In general, shamans are one-to-one. They have a personal connection with a spirit or set of spirits, a mentor or several elders, or a local community or tribe.Anchor wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:47 amI always thought it was paladins and clerics and never really saw druids as restrictive. Learn something new every day
I do appreciate the amount of customization the shaman’s guide and RP allow. Welp, until the changes go live I have some time to sort this out.Rhifox wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:18 pmShamans will be restricted by the demands of the spirits they follow, the culture and traditions of their individual community, and so on. They have their religious strictures, but it's very much based on individual and community. Heck, in many RL cultures, shamans often come from those considered different in some way. In general, shamans are one-to-one. They have a personal connection with a spirit or set of spirits, a mentor or several elders, or a local community or tribe.
Compare this to druids, who are a world-spanning hierarchical organization that has its own secret language, secret rites, expected oaths to be taken and rules to adhere to, typically belong to a regional circle, which itself sends representative to the wider world-spanning druidic order. They have a single leading 'world druid', and so on. While druids can have some diversity within the order (such as druids who follow different gods, or forest druids vs desert druids), the underlying traditions are more or less the same.
A shaman might have a similar amount of rules they will follow when compared to druids, but what rules those are will vary from shaman to shaman. Druids are an Order, shamans are local community wise-people.
And I would say the exact same thing about the Druid class, you really need to master that spell book to bring every ounce of power out of it. Thus, I think some might be in for a small shock to see what a Spirit Shaman with 27 BAB and caster level of 30 can actually do on this server, and especially because Spirit Shaman lacks the Animal Companion, and the Wild Shapes, which leaves the player with no other course of action but to get the highest mileage possible out of the spell book.mrm3ntalist wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:58 amWizards is the most demanding class to play regarding player skills and mechanical knowledge ( again not talking about builds but spells). You literally have to study and practice with every spell and be quick to adjust your spell book. I have been playing for over 10 years and there are 2 players that I have seen playing wizards and went like "This dude really knows what he is doing".
A spirit shaman cavestalker is generally going to be a shaman who has a particularly close connection with the spirits of rock and stone and darkness. A spirit shaman cavestalker likely communes with these spirits and it's these spirits that help them navigate the subterranean tunnels. I recommend grabbing the Stonetell spell at level 6 to represent being able to talk to the caverns.
If you play a deep gnome, Segojan Earthcaller. You follow him because the spirits of the earth sing praise to him, or something like that. I guess Grumbar is possibility, but if you take his worship properly, Storm of Vengeance, Storm Avatar... Etc, do not quite seem like your kind of spell picks.
I have a similar concept and will also be using that new earth teleport spell you created because it fits perfectlyRhifox wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:25 pmA spirit shaman cavestalker is generally going to be a shaman who has a particularly close connection with the spirits of rock and stone and darkness. A spirit shaman cavestalker likely communes with these spirits and it's these spirits that help them navigate the subterranean tunnels. I recommend grabbing the Stonetell spell at level 6 to represent being able to talk to the caverns.
