Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Tsidkenu wrote:Random 'effects' are already applied. Anyone without a light source (Light spell or equipped torch/lantern) or Darkvision (as per Drow, Svirf, Dwarf, Orc, Tiefling etc) gets perma Darkness debuff applied to them as long as they remain in Upper/Underdark areas.

And the same blindness has an effect on the underdark races when they go to surface. Every now and then you will suffer from light blindness, unless you have the Day Light Adaptation feat.

Tsidkenu wrote:Random 'effects' are already applied. Anyone without a light source (Light spell or equipped torch/lantern) or Darkvision (as per Drow, Svirf, Dwarf, Orc, Tiefling etc) gets perma Darkness debuff applied to them as long as they remain in Upper/Underdark areas.

If it is consistent, it ain't random. I'll admit it is good, in that it gives something...but I'm also thinking the "lack of fresh air" effect, toxic gases/fumes effect, lack of water effect, lack of sound effect, lack of direction effect, lack of sleep effect, diseases effect, etc.

The Middledark is, at its best, worse than the harshest surface deserts. The DC for any Survival check made in the Middledark automatically increases by 5, even for natives.

We all know its not at all like it should be! Not that it even could be...so, as its been proven for years, finding a best/good/perfect sweet spot is forever elusive, right...right?!

You can be knocked down, you can be temporarily blinded, etc... etc...

Steve wrote:"lack of fresh air" effect

Underdark creatures also need fresh air. And since this is D&D, every negative must have some way to counter it. You wish to force people to purchase premium bags of canadian air or something?

Steve wrote:toxic gases/fumes effect

Underdark creatures also need fresh air. Toxic gases could be slowly trickling toxic damage, which could be negated by just about any source of toxic damage resistance or reduction. As for fumes, the underdark already has mushroom spores that act in a similar enough fashion. Fail a fortitude save and you get poisoned/diseased.

Steve wrote:lack of water effect

Underdark creatures also need water to survive. And since this is D&D, every negative must have some way to counter it. You wish to force people to purchase premium bags of canadian water or something?

Steve wrote:lack of sound effect

What would that be aside from increased weakness to sonic damage?

Steve wrote:lack of direction effect

There is a chance to be knocked down randomly? With 'Wah-wah, I feel lost' spammed in similar fashion as the groans and moans after lost PvP?

Steve wrote:lack of sleep effect

This server has a rest timer, and all creatures need sleep. Not to mention that potions of lesser restoration will take care of fatigue.

Steve wrote:diseases effect

There are things called healing kits, and potions of cure disease.

Thus over all, these are just universal minor inconveniences that have little to no effect. These will not hinder anyone seeking to visit the land down under or the topside.

Look Monkeystein's Monkster, it's like you don't understand the concept of the game, or something! As in: challenges to be overcome utilizing Abilities, Skills and Feats.

You leave the game without challenges, and then what...it loses its fundamental beingness-ness.

When one of the greatest instances of Difficulty—the Underdark in Forgotten Realms—is watered down to both existence and interpretation as "minor inconveniences," you kill the game, mate.

Monkey kill game. Bad monkey!!!

Steve wrote:When one of the greatest instances of Difficulty—the Underdark in Forgotten Realms—is watered down to both existence and interpretation as "minor inconveniences," you kill the game, mate.

Steve, this is not a game of PnP where a single DM gets to decide everything for a few players. And as it has been said before, lead by example. You are free to role-play those flaws yourself without forcing them on others.

There are not very many environmental effects in this video game. Before you start adding poisonous gas in the underdark I first suggest lowering the termperature on the Cloudpeaks.

There are lots of uninhabitable parts of the UD. There are also areas of the UD that are livable. The proof of this beng the existance of life in the UD.

There is also limited space on the surver. So lets just imagine that the livable maps that exist in the game are surrounded by these uninhabitable UD areas that nobody dares explore.

FACTS:
The UD is part of the forgotten realms, part of this video game and part of this server.
There are people who want to explore.
There are people who will not play/RP to your standards.
There are both people who like cross surface/ud RP and those that dont.
Compromise is a good thing.

So back on topic,
-You can cross over if you have an RP reason.
-Shopping may not be a great RP reason. But perhaps, if you set out on a quest to locate a magical item you seek and your investigation gives you a lead that there may be a merchant that sells it, in the infamous and far off, city of Sshamath. So you set of on a high adventure to find this merchant who may part with the prize you so desparately seek.
-You can go afk and run straight to the merchant on the other side- but we well all hate you for doing that.

That cover it?

Sun Wukong wrote:Steve, this is not a game of PnP where a single DM gets to decide everything for a few players. And as it has been said before, lead by example. You are free to role-play those flaws yourself without forcing them on others.

Definitely not PnP, I'll agree with you there! But a single DM does seem to decide everything for a few players...and not the first time I've experienced that.

Anyway...you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink, my hairy simian frenemy.

But sorry mate, RPing all the Lore-based experiences that we as Players respecting the environment should be doing is fine, but when others just zerg on past you with AFK up and no conscience (Hi Le Valefort!), really, what is the point? It's another situation of 'Rping in a vacuum'. And we all know how much fun THAT is.

Tekill wrote:There are not very many environmental effects in this video game. Before you start adding poisonous gas in the underdark I first suggest lowering the termperature on the Cloudpeaks.

There are lots of uninhabitable parts of the UD. There are also areas of the UD that are livable. The proof of this beng the existance of life in the UD.

There is also limited space on the surver. So lets just imagine that the livable maps that exist in the game are surrounded by these uninhabitable UD areas that nobody dares explore.

FACTS:
The UD is part of the forgotten realms, part of this video game and part of this server.
There are people who want to explore.
There are people who will not play/RP to your standards.
There are both people who like cross surface/ud RP and those that dont.
Compromise is a good thing.

So back on topic,
-You can cross over if you have an RP reason.
-Shopping may not be a great RP reason. But perhaps, if you set out on a quest to locate a magical item you seek and your investigation gives you a lead that there may be a merchant that sells it, in the infamous and far off, city of Sshamath. So you set of on a high adventure to find this merchant who may part with the prize you so desparately seek.
-You can go afk and run straight to the merchant on the other side- but we well all hate you for doing that.

That cover it?

Finally, someone who sums it up in a nice fashion. Time to find that legendary smith in Doron Amar.

Tekill wrote:There are not very many environmental effects in this video game. Before you start adding poisonous gas in the underdark I first suggest lowering the termperature on the Cloudpeaks.

There are lots of uninhabitable parts of the UD. There are also areas of the UD that are livable. The proof of this beng the existance of life in the UD.

There is also limited space on the surver. So lets just imagine that the livable maps that exist in the game are surrounded by these uninhabitable UD areas that nobody dares explore.

FACTS:
The UD is part of the forgotten realms, part of this video game and part of this server.
There are people who want to explore.
There are people who will not play/RP to your standards.
There are both people who like cross surface/ud RP and those that dont.
Compromise is a good thing.

So back on topic,
-You can cross over if you have an RP reason.
-Shopping may not be a great RP reason. But perhaps, if you set out on a quest to locate a magical item you seek and your investigation gives you a lead that there may be a merchant that sells it, in the infamous and far off, city of Sshamath. So you set of on a high adventure to find this merchant who may part with the prize you so desparately seek.
-You can go afk and run straight to the merchant on the other side- but we well all hate you for doing that.

That cover it?

I agree with all of this, except the part about compromise. Letting surfacers freely stalk the Upperdark while drow are killed on sight in every area with sky above is not a compromise. Setting Northern lawless territories (that are already occupied by evil sides like Orks, zhents, Ebon Blades, etc) as an equivalent of Upperdark (in terms of looting/grinding/shopping rules) is a compromise.

We've been generous about leaving this thread open for discussion, even though countless like it have been locked in the past, staff has been clear in their decision, and nothing has changed - please ensure that this doesn't become a place for everyone to drudge up the same us vs. them arguments and ranting that has taken place in ALL of the threads like it.

Planehopper wrote:We've been generous about leaving this thread open for discussion, even though countless like it have been locked in the past, staff has been clear in their decision, and nothing has changed - please ensure that this doesn't become a place for everyone to drudge up the same us vs. them arguments and ranting that has taken place in ALL of the threads like it.

But those threads keep being created only because there are many players who don't agree with that decision, why noone listens? In all honest, since that update the experience has become worse (in terms of adventuring, not RP).

There used to be a time where there was no restriction on traveling between the surface and the UD, but its been proven time and time again that we are not responsible nor mature enough to have such unrestricted access. That's why they put the rule in place, that's why this topic can come up every other month only to be ignored.

A long time ago, a wise veteran here once said they should delete the UD and the UD races from the server to use for more resources in developing the surface, and then create a dungeon for the Underdark. I told that person it was terrible idea, but looking back now, I concede I was wrong.

I think it's better to see these threads pop up regularly rather than removing the UD, no need to break everything for rotten apples (even though nobody found a way to prevent the rotting apples to spoil the fun regularly).

Valefort wrote:I think it's better to see these threads pop up regularly rather than removing the UD, no need to break everything for rotten apples (even though nobody found a way to prevent the rotting apples to spoil the fun regularly).

Truth is, Valefort, I really don‘t believe the fruit is spoiled atm.

A couple of people‘s feedback (who aren‘t even playing much in the UD) shouldn‘t even warrant such a suggestion.

10/10 troll topic.

Personal opinion:

I honestly don't understand where these notions of UD deserving the same amount of areas and grind locations come from. UD has always been a tight-knit community in the past, which welcomed newcomers and helped them get on their feet. That was always its selling point, great community. Yeah, it had its issues, like the lack of places to level up (aka the endless mines spam), but it certainly never showed the need, desire nor numbers to support the notion of equality. I have played in the UD twice in my 5 years here, and I had a lot of fun both times. Without spending 90% of my time on the surface.

This isn't a gods damned movement for human rights, fighting for the poor oppressed underground players to have equality. This is a server, with limited space and a desire to cater to many playstyles and character concepts. Underdark is a niche part of it, and it gets attention as such.

From what I can see, we currently have a decent number of UD players who actually stick to the UD and focus their roleplay down there, compared to the chaos and the ridiculous situation from half a year ago. With a bit more DM attention, the place could probably flourish for a time.

But hey, what do I know, I'm just a part of the "apartheid", denying UD players their basic human rights of having empty areas no one ever visits and keeping them down in their supposed (for this server) environment.