Coming Soon: Discussion Thread (2017)

[Sun Wukong]

Ah, yes, noticed the issue with the bard one. Bard 16/Blackguard 4/Dragon Disciple 10, caster level of 27, BAB of 21. This is very much doable and not everyone wants to play that Requiem spamming bard.

The inspire courage will just be two points lower than with a pure bard. Not to mention that with +2 to both STR and CHA, that is basically 4 Great Ability feats that could be spent on either STR or CHA. The first give soyu +2 AB and 2-3 points of damage, and the other +4 points of Divine Damage and two more uses of EDM.

I can see people going for it.

[Sun Wukong]

I think they are free to choose any blessing.

[Valefort]

Yes, free.

[Planehopper]

The MM from Mystras spell stash.. is it affected by autoquucken 0-1?

[Hawke]

I have to interject here, that once again, divines get some serious boost in power and little of the drawbacks as arcanes do. And where are the requirements at? Easier to obtain than Harper Mage? 4 Skill points is 4 skill points.

Level 1-3 blessing are fine. Nothing wrong with those.

The 4-5 level blessings, over the top. So much power oozing from this, it's ridiculous.

Eldath's Soothing Pool- Like a Mass Regeneration (lite) that cures the target from pretty much all ailments.

Lliira's candle of calm- -5AB for 30 rounds up to 4 creatures. That is pretty huge. Definite boss artillery.

Milil's Forgotten Melody- Souped up Silence spell with a -4 penalty to the will save. What?

Mielikki's Forest Hunter- You cannot get swift tracker unless you put levels into a class. There is no available feat for this, but 4 levels of this class and you are golden if that is what you are looking to get. 13 Dex requirement?

Mystra's Secret Spell Stash- Stop. Just Stop. This is BS, utter and total BS. Unlimited castings of Magic missile cast at your CL?

Shaundakul's binding- Another silence spell for offensive magics. It works like a souped up Bigby.

Oghma's Greatest Book, Volume III- This is actually ok.

Tymora's Luck Rabbit- This isn't too bad, it acts like a heroism/spiderskin. Feels pretty balanced.

Seldarine's Gift- Stop smoking whatever it is. Just.... stop. a +5 enhancement range weapon. Even a level 7 spell does not even have this capability. Plus it gives you the ability to equip Rapiers and Longswords? For the entire day?

Selûne's Radiance: No issues.

Lurue's voice- No Issues.


Let's look at Harper Mage real fast.

Skill Focus Spellcraft.
Knowledge Skill Focus - Any
Extend Spell
Spell Focus - Any

Not one of those "feats" are overpowered or exclusive to a class. Extend spell? Nice to have. Spell focus... meh depends if you are going to go Thaumaturge or AM. Skill foci? Nice to have, has nothing to do with game play.


I seriously reject what is being given to the Harper Priest. It's Heiraphant all over again. All of the Archmage boons, plus more, with ZERO drawbacks. This is not balanced, not even in the slightest.

[mrm3ntalist]

Stop smoking whatever it is. Just.... stop.

> No

Level 1-3 blessing are fine. Nothing wrong with those.

Nothing wrong with those blessing. That is good.

The 4-5 level blessings, over the top. So much power oozing from this, it's ridiculous.

Eldath's Soothing Pool- Like a Mass Regeneration (lite) that cures the target from pretty much all ailments.

Lliira's candle of calm- -5AB for 30 rounds up to 4 creatures. That is pretty huge. Definite boss artillery.

Milil's Forgotten Melody- Souped up Silence spell with a -4 penalty to the will save. What?

Mielikki's Forest Hunter- You cannot get swift tracker unless you put levels into a class. There is no available feat for this, but 4 levels of this class and you are golden if that is what you are looking to get. 13 Dex requirement?

Mystra's Secret Spell Stash- Stop. Just Stop. This is BS, utter and total BS. Unlimited castings of Magic missile cast at your CL?

Shaundakul's binding- Another silence spell for offensive magics. It works like a souped up Bigby.

Oghma's Greatest Book, Volume III- This is actually ok.

Tymora's Luck Rabbit- This isn't too bad, it acts like a heroism/spiderskin. Feels pretty balanced.

Seldarine's Gift- Stop smoking whatever it is. Just.... stop. a +5 enhancement range weapon. Even a level 7 spell does not even have this capability. Plus it gives you the ability to equip Rapiers and Longswords? For the entire day?

Selûne's Radiance: No issues.

Lurue's voice- No Issues.

You can select two Gr. blessing and that is it. You wont have them as spells, rather like SLAs 1x per rest. No extend no empower. You are very quick to "balance" ( ) those blessings, probably because you feel it lacks in comparison to Harper Mage - which it doesnt.

Let's look at Harper Mage real fast.

Skill Focus Spellcraft.
Knowledge Skill Focus - Any
Extend Spell
Spell Focus - Any

Not one of those "feats" are overpowered or exclusive to a class. Extend spell? Nice to have. Spell focus... meh depends if you are going to go Thaumaturge or AM. Skill foci? Nice to have, has nothing to do with game play.

I seriously reject what is being given to the Harper Priest. It's Heiraphant all over again. All of the Archmage boons, plus more, with ZERO drawbacks. This is not balanced, not even in the slightest.

This is Bladesinger all over again. In order to avoid 26 pages of back and forth, the possibility of someone rage quiting, lets avoid comments like smoking drugs, or "seriously reject" comments etc. You expressed - very critical - your concerns. Now wait to play the PRC.

There was no balance concern with this PRC. The Gr blessings are close to useless and like a mentioned before, there are not spells. You cannot memorize more than one. You Get 2 Gr. Blessings, 1 use per day and that is it.

[Glowfire]

Let's see how many will actually RP their characters looking like beasts...

[Valefort]

On Eldath's soothing pool : it looks like a powered up vigorous cycle but it is stationary.

Liirra's candle : Well a bigby 5 gives -10 AB and offers no save, here it's -5 AB and a save.

Millill's forgotten melody : it offers a will save, casting silence at someone's feet will still be more effective.

Mystra's Secret Spell Stash : the max number of magic missiles is 9, 9*(1d4+1) = 9*3.5 = 31.5 damage, it's reserve feat power level...

Shaundakul's binding: that one is undeniably strong, we'll see how it goes

Tymora's Luck Rabbit: funny how I think it's the best one !

Seldarine's Gift: is just a +1 EB compared to the longbows that can be found, hardly something huge. As for rapiers and longswords I'm not sure what's the big deal

[Mallore]

Shaundakul's binding:
Level : 6
Target: One Creature
Saving Throw: Reflex negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Calling upon the power of elemental air, you encircle the target in whipping winds.

The subject can act normally, but it cannot move from its current location. The winds carry its voice away, so it can speak but cannot be heard, and it cannot hear anything but the roar of the winds.

Furthermore, no sonic or language dependent spells or effects can be cast into or out of the winds though spells cast by you upon yourself function normally).

Specifics : Your movespeed is reduced to 0, you are silenced and incur a concentration penalty equal to the caster's caster level.

I like this ability, it is rather fine to. Its not a bigbys infact its better in some ways and worse in others. Its nice to see a bigby like affect that shuts down spell casting, but to be fair is this subject to some sort of counter spell?

I like this ability because its Ref Save, so its not going to stop a Rogue or Monk which can be two very scary things for a Priest Class to Face. In truth a lot of the other higher save Builds out there will probably end up with a 50/50 shot against this and will survive. I do think this ability is pretty cool over all.

Question will we see this affecting bosses? a stationary boss is a big deal

[Hawke]

I did not mean to offend personally. My apologies.

I still stand by the greater blessings being too strong compared to Harper mage. I disagree that Harper mage and priest should not be compared. These classes are comparable as a specialized offshoots of the prime class Harper agent.

The greater blessings are issue. Does not matter you only get 2, what matters is that you get some very beefy abilities that you cannot get anywhere else or it is part of specific classes.

The power level should be comparable between the 2 classes. For 5 level prc, it is very strong.

I still stand by my opinions with Harper Priest and heiraphant. Both are examples of divines being much stronger than the arcane equivalents.

[chad878262]

Bard 16/Blackguard 4/Dragon Disciple 10, caster level of 27, BAB of 21. This is very much doable and not everyone wants to play that Requiem spamming bard.

21 (BAB) + 4 (EB) + 4 (Inspire Courage) + 4 (Greater Heroism) + 8 (~26 STR) = 41. Not a bad Attack bonus, but not stellar either, certainly would not be a good idea to use Power attack, but with EDM you don't need it. Expose Weakness would help, but any dip to get it will cost your CL dropping to 24, which becomes subject to regular dispels.

Point being, while it is like getting 4 great STR/CHA feats it is not better than what can be done with a B26/BG4 today which is CL30 and will end up with better attack bonus and more damage, if slightly lower overall stats. The idea was to allow DD to be played without it being the 'optimized' choice. The way we implemented it is certainly an option and it does give an easier path if you want an EDM Gish. However, we feel you are now giving up some things that make it more of a decision, rather than a no-brainer.

[Valefort]

I'll try to make a permanent VFX so that scales are visible. Bite and claws though ... no visual clues.

[chad878262]

If I may make a recommendation, give things a few months to settle in. Fact is that GMW = +5 swords and has forever, very little that the Greater Blessings do is not available mechanically in some similar type of fashion. In addition, at least from a PvP perspective DC Mage is unequivocally at the top of the heap (can that even be argued?) so it is not as if Harper Priest is somehow changing that around. It should also be considered for any Harper class that the 2 feats requirements are basically useless whether you are focusing on being a caster or a Gish so in most cases you are giving up some power in order to just be allowed to take the class. Harper Mage getting Extend spell and Spell Focus somewhat makes up for the 'feat tax' while Harper Priest gains a couple of minor and greater blessings. As I said, they don't really do anything all that different than other abilities that already exist, they just do it with a different flavor.

Several of us did test these PRC's and did not find them capable of changing the 'power rankings' of PRC's for either divine or arcane PC's. I can't speak with the voice of "QC", but based on my findings and the posts from others during testing there is not anything that is going to make the Harper's of this server the undisputed rulers of our little corner of the internet.

[Rudolph]

Thanks as ever for all the game-expanding work! Something new to build around - yay.

Questions:
1) Does one creature in Tymora's Luck Rabbit include the caster? It sounds like it does, just wanna confirm.
2) Is the longbow in Seldarine's gift a +5 EB or AB longbow? Can it be wielded by halflings without them having the Monkey Grip feat?
3) Where can I find a clear description of the Combat Focus feat line (how the focus gets triggered, etc.)?
4) "All types of armor ... and shields" - does that include Tower Shields?

[mrm3ntalist]

Thanks as ever for all the game-expanding work! Something new to build around - yay.

Questions:
1) Does one creature in Tymora's Luck Rabbit include the caster? It sounds like it does, just wanna confirm.

It does include the caster

2) Is the longbow in Seldarine's gift a +5 EB or AB longbow? Can it be wielded by halflings without them having the Monkey Grip feat?

Its AB but has +5damaging arrows. It is basically a +5EB, +5Might bow with unlimited plain arrows. If shrimps need monkey grip to wield the bow, they will still need it after this. We will look at this whether something can/should be done about this

3) Where can I find a clear description of the Combat Focus feat line (how the focus gets triggered, etc.)?

All the info can be found here - https://wiki.bgtscc.net/index.php?title ... ombat_feat

If there is something more specific, feel free toask