Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Marigold wrote:I know in game in DM events when it comes time to rest there is a debate on how long this actually takes in game time because the results are pretty much Instant. I know in first edition to regain spells by either prayer and studying a spellbook the time to regain spells was 10 min per spell level so in order for a Archmage to get all his spells back it would take a total of 90 min at 10 min per spell lvl *9 being he has 9th level spells. Do this still hold true in this setting 3.5 or does the staff here have another standard they use?

Before someone posts about soc and FS my guess is that may be recoup time involved in order to prep oneself.

For a wizard, it takes exactly one hour to rememorize all the spells for the day immediately after 8 hours of uninterrupted rest. 8 hours, even if you're an elf. Spell preparation never takes less than 15 minutes, even if wizard decides to prepare small portion of spells.

Sorcerers and bards need 15 minutes immediately after 8 hours of rest, bard must sing/recite/play instrument in the process.

Divine casters (clerics) do not require uniterrupted rest prior to preparation of spells, however, they dedicate dedicate specific part of day for praying. Praying takes 1 hour, as with wizard. If you miss that part of day, you don't get any spells, and must wait till the next day.

Documented in Player's handbook on pages 177..179.

Player handbook does not cover favored souls, which are introduced in complete divine, which haven't read in detail. The page dedicated to favored souls, does not explain in detail how they prepare their spells.

Can Hellfire burn through Force effects? Like if someone wanted to try and contain Hellfire inside a cube of Force, or using a Wall of Force to help curb the blaze.

One more question.

What kind of event would be required to make baatezu (devil) shift alignment (in direction of good - to lawful neutral or lawful good)?

Now, normal reaction would be "devils don't switch alignments", however... after reading book of exhalted deeds I suspect it might be possible (books of exhalted deeds have example of good-aligned illithid). It can't be done by a single mortal, obviously...

Probably requires event similar to ascension to godhood - rare and unlikely event. Now... what would that event be?

Something I must admit to my great shame I /never/ could figure out...

At the movie theatre, which armrest is yours?

Depends how you want to look at it, and whether or not there is an even or uneven number of seats.

Even number of seats

• Option 1 - Everyone gets the armrest on their right, this means that the far left seat get two armrests
• Option 2 - Everyone gets the armrest on the left, this means that the far right seat get two armrests
• Option 3 - Everyone in the left half gets the left armrest, while everyone in the right half gets the right armrest. The two senter seats share the middle armrest.

Option 3 is the most fair in terms of number of armrests per seat.

Uneven number of seats

• Only option - Center seat get two armrests, everyone else get either the left or right armrest, depending on whether they are to the left or right of the center seat.

This is based on seatings on a plane, where the window seat get a window and an armrest, center seat get two armrests, while the aisle seat get an armrest and some legroom.

DM Eurydice wrote:Something I must admit to my great shame I /never/ could figure out...

At the movie theatre, which armrest is yours?

I'm 260lbs IRL. Both armrests are mine, and ya, I am Canadian so I say, "sorry,eh?" when I sit beside someone who thinks they might have an armrest...

NegInfinity wrote:One more question.

What kind of event would be required to make baatezu (devil) shift alignment (in direction of good - to lawful neutral or lawful good)?

Now, normal reaction would be "devils don't switch alignments", however... after reading book of exhalted deeds I suspect it might be possible (books of exhalted deeds have example of good-aligned illithid). It can't be done by a single mortal, obviously...

Probably requires event similar to ascension to godhood - rare and unlikely event. Now... what would that event be?

IMHO this would be a very rare event, not impossible, but rare. There would have to be some key components:

1. In order to have such a powerfully evil creature shift their alignment there would have to be a pretty good reason/incentive for them, OR they would have to be powerfully magically compelled.
2. There would have to be a powerful influence over the creature in the form of a relationship, i.e. extended periods of contact with it by a creature whose OPPOSING alignment aura was stronger than the devil... remember that a weak-minded devil probably isn't that powerful/left alive by other devils too, and to be so influenced would take a long period of time.

I can see a devil "faking it" in order to kill/maim/gain something for themselves, but their true nature remaining evil. Hard one to call as there would be a large amount of situational-questions too, i.e. who is the devil, who is seeking to shift their AL, situation leading up to the change, etc. Remember that Darth Vader was more or less good before he converted to evil, and then back to good - an evil devil has only ever known shades of evil...

DM Arkanis wrote:

NegInfinity wrote:One more question.

What kind of event would be required to make baatezu (devil) shift alignment (in direction of good - to lawful neutral or lawful good)?

Now, normal reaction would be "devils don't switch alignments", however... after reading book of exhalted deeds I suspect it might be possible (books of exhalted deeds have example of good-aligned illithid). It can't be done by a single mortal, obviously...

Probably requires event similar to ascension to godhood - rare and unlikely event. Now... what would that event be?

IMHO this would be a very rare event, not impossible, but rare. There would have to be some key components:

1. In order to have such a powerfully evil creature shift their alignment there would have to be a pretty good reason/incentive for them, OR they would have to be powerfully magically compelled.
2. There would have to be a powerful influence over the creature in the form of a relationship, i.e. extended periods of contact with it by a creature whose OPPOSING alignment aura was stronger than the devil... remember that a weak-minded devil probably isn't that powerful/left alive by other devils too, and to be so influenced would take a long period of time.

I can see a devil "faking it" in order to kill/maim/gain something for themselves, but their true nature remaining evil. Hard one to call as there would be a large amount of situational-questions too, i.e. who is the devil, who is seeking to shift their AL, situation leading up to the change, etc. Remember that Darth Vader was more or less good before he converted to evil, and then back to good - an evil devil has only ever known shades of evil...

Dont' forget True Names, though. Difficult as they are to obtain, once you have the True Name for a creature, you can make the creature do anything you want. Anything. Want to see a Devil take up worship of Tyr and spread Tyrran faith to other Devils? True Name will allow you to do that.

"A fiend is an evil creature from one of the Fiendish Planes. They are not just evil, but born of Evil; primal malevolence is one of the roots of their nature, and the evil essence of the fiendish planes permeates every part of their bodies."

I would almost call it impossible for a mortal creature to ever convert a Fiend or Celestial of high rank. They are simply too otherwordly and powerful, and a mortal would just never reach those heights of charisma and influence.

With that said, even Celestials may fall from grace and become corrupted, the other way is perhaps likely too. Even Gods are not immune to sway from their alignments.

There is a Forgotten Realms novel about the death of Helm at the hand of Tyr, following which Tyr resigns as a deity and leaves Torm in charge. It was written from the perspective of an Angel and Succubus, wherein the succubus is subjected to a trial of torment by conciounce in the home of the Triad.

At the end of the story she switches alignment to neutral.

That kind of illustrates the level of divine intervention that was needed. But on the other hand it also shows that outsiders are still people who think in terms of reason and relate to the world with a somewhat human perspective. (Though that is perhaps a limitation of the writers imagination too)

mireigi wrote:

DM Arkanis wrote:

NegInfinity wrote:One more question.

What kind of event would be required to make baatezu (devil) shift alignment (in direction of good - to lawful neutral or lawful good)?

Now, normal reaction would be "devils don't switch alignments", however... after reading book of exhalted deeds I suspect it might be possible (books of exhalted deeds have example of good-aligned illithid). It can't be done by a single mortal, obviously...

Probably requires event similar to ascension to godhood - rare and unlikely event. Now... what would that event be?

IMHO this would be a very rare event, not impossible, but rare. There would have to be some key components:

1. In order to have such a powerfully evil creature shift their alignment there would have to be a pretty good reason/incentive for them, OR they would have to be powerfully magically compelled.
2. There would have to be a powerful influence over the creature in the form of a relationship, i.e. extended periods of contact with it by a creature whose OPPOSING alignment aura was stronger than the devil... remember that a weak-minded devil probably isn't that powerful/left alive by other devils too, and to be so influenced would take a long period of time.

I can see a devil "faking it" in order to kill/maim/gain something for themselves, but their true nature remaining evil. Hard one to call as there would be a large amount of situational-questions too, i.e. who is the devil, who is seeking to shift their AL, situation leading up to the change, etc. Remember that Darth Vader was more or less good before he converted to evil, and then back to good - an evil devil has only ever known shades of evil...

Dont' forget True Names, though. Difficult as they are to obtain, once you have the True Name for a creature, you can make the creature do anything you want. Anything. Want to see a Devil take up worship of Tyr and spread Tyrran faith to other Devils? True Name will allow you to do that.

True, however the Devil's alignment isn't shifting, they are just obeying a command based upon the use of their true name. Remember too that devils will seek to obey commands TO THE LETTER of what they were told so any ambiguity or vagueness will leave them open to interpret the commands as they see fit. "Go and worship Tyr" as a stand alone statement could mean the devil summarily start judging/sentencing people or twist any other Tyrian principles... Like getting a genie to give you a wish, you gotta be careful what you ask for

Smyssel wrote:"A fiend is an evil creature from one of the Fiendish Planes. They are not just evil, but born of Evil; primal malevolence is one of the roots of their nature, and the evil essence of the fiendish planes permeates every part of their bodies."

I would almost call it impossible for a mortal creature to ever convert a Fiend or Celestial of high rank. They are simply too otherwordly and powerful, and a mortal would just never reach those heights of charisma and influence.

With that said, even Celestials may fall from grace and become corrupted, the other way is perhaps likely too. Even Gods are not immune to sway from their alignments.

Yes, I agree with this - some sort of very powerful magic/divine intervention would probably be required. That said, I would love to see someone try to convert a devil to good...

Rasael wrote:There is a Forgotten Realms novel about the death of Helm at the hand of Tyr, following which Tyr resigns as a deity and leaves Torm in charge. It was written from the perspective of an Angel and Succubus, wherein the succubus is subjected to a trial of torment by conciounce in the home of the Triad.

At the end of the story she switches alignment to neutral.

That kind of illustrates the level of divine intervention that was needed. But on the other hand it also shows that outsiders are still people who think in terms of reason and relate to the world with a somewhat human perspective. (Though that is perhaps a limitation of the writers imagination too)

IMHO there are a number of fantasy novel writers who should take a class or two in systematic theology and/or philosophy basics. We are always willing to believe that angels fall but devils never have a change of heart and do good; if they do it is out of a selfish reason, or to give them an edge, etc. some sort of personal gain, while the angels stumble from lofy towers of goodness into some abyss of evilness, never to return.

The question of evil as a perspective is a good one too - does a devil consider themselves evil? Do they care? Could they perform many wondrously good deeds and still be evil? I would say so. The human perspective you mention is at the heart of the discussion - I recently had a whole pile of time on my hands and watched all eight seasons of, "House" and loved it all. House, brilliant doctor, asshat as a human being, saves lives, distains patients/peers/friends to the point where he appears to act in a totally selfish manner all of the time. Periodically, here and there we get glimpses of his humanity where we see a deed he has done as being truly good and even though it is only a glimpse and he reverts to his old, hateful self. Now, I am not trying to say House is an evil character, just trying to juxtapose him being a complete sociopath vs. saving lives. People love him even though he is hateful, and fundamentally, under all the crap he is truly a good man. When we filter good and evil through this perspective we are subject to our perceptions of someone behaving badly being a bad person vs. their actions actually doing good things and perhaps drawing the wrong conclusions about them. I would love to find an author who could connect the dots here and illustrate the struggles with predetermined evil as a genetic/cultural inheritance as judged by other cultures/people.

Selande wrote:Can Hellfire burn through Force effects? Like if someone wanted to try and contain Hellfire inside a cube of Force, or using a Wall of Force to help curb the blaze.

Apologies I totally missed this one.

OK remember that force spell effects depend on the device, level of caster, etc. Hellfire's attributes are mainly that it is stronger than normal fire, and not predictable. According to the definition of Cube of Force, side 5 can keep out "all things" for six charges per minute thus someone who could cast hellfire and had a cube could contain it 10x10' by this definition; duration dependant on the number of charges left in the cube.

A definition of Wall of Force I found says that it can be damaged by spells and can be damaged by supernatural abilities. Were I DMing a PnP game and this spell was used to contain hellfire, it would be only of limited duration as the wall would take damage from the hellfire, and "containment" of the hellfire would be limited in duration, and eventually destroy the wall.

If you put it inside a cube, wouldn't the hellfire die down because it burns all the oxygen? Does Hellfire still require oxygen?