Lore Assistance

[NegInfinity]

Anyone have any links or info they'd like to share?

WotC archive:
http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp? ... c/20070314
http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp? ... c/20070328

So this question is about good aligned warlocks.

Reading the FR wiki (I know, I know, not the most accurate of sources) that "A warlock is an arcane spellcaster who gains power through pacts with powerful entities, most commonly devils, elder evils of the Far Realm, fey or demons." Is it entirely out of the realm of possibility to have a pact with a celestial? I.e. Solar, Planetar, etc?

That is actually incorrect information.

(opinion)
Rewards you can get from making faustian pact are outlined in fiendish codex II and they're rather poor. You can get stat increased by 1 point, for example, IF you get lucky. Making a successful pact with a fiend (that would turn you into warlock) is an extremely improbable event. Things change if you're part of some kind of sect that worship asmodeous, for example.
(/opinion)

Complete arcane also mentiosn several conflicting things about warlock class:

Suggests abilities are inborn:

Warlock: A supernatural character whose sinister powers are inborn abilities, not spells.

Suggests abilities can be obtained through pact (doesn't say pact with WHAT)

Long ago, they (or in some cases, their ancestors) forged grim pacts with dangerous extraplanar
powers, trading portions of their souls in exchange for supernatural power.

Suggests warlock may not have a say in that matter:

but a few blameless individuals are simply marked out by the supernatural forces as conduits and tools.

Resulting in this advice:

The exact nature of a warlock’s origin is up to the player to decide; just as a sorcerer is not beholden to the magic-wielding ancestor that bequeathed his bloodline with arcane power, a warlock is not bound to follow the source that gifted him with magic

So It isn't clear cut. For example, Harvester Devil operating under laws of baator is unlikely to let you become warlock and live - too much hassle. However, some other, older or independent entity (like Gargauth) not affiliated with nine hells, might decide to form pact with you, albeit it still looks improbable.

Regarding celestial pact.

There is nothing I've come across that would suggest that celestials make warlock pacts.
Book of Exhalted deeds mentions channeling ("possession" of willing mortal by celestial), but that's as far as it goes. (opinion)I would expect celestial to attempt turning you towards good, and making you into cleric of their patron god instead. (/opinion) Keep in mind that most good-aligned things are outside of my area of interest, so I might be missing something. (Like eladrin pact deathgrowl mentioned).

Judging by warlock's requirements and information from wotc, I would assume that no celestials form warlock pacts, and major sources are either vile forces or extremely chaotic forces. Complete arcane also makes good job repeatedly saying that magic is dark and/or destructive. Meaning results from chaos or evil.

The link to FR wiki you mention in addition to providing misleading information is missing planetouched origin. As a planetouched, you can be also infused with essence of your plane, which most commonly happens with tieflings. If you're planning good warlock, then, say good aligned genasi could make a decent choice.

Devils are by far the most numerous, I think.

Clarification: High-ranking devils. IIRC Fiendish Codex II mentions that Asmodeous and Mephistopheles are interested in messing with mortals, and have large number of cultists. So I would expect "those of evil intent" that were not born with predisposition to beign warlock to originate from one of those cults.

[TheKai]

FR Wiki has 4.0 info on warlocks. Don't look at that. I can give you a bit of information from the 3.5 book Complete Mage (not Complete Arcane):

Devils are by far the most numerous, I think.

Demons:
Perhaps surprisingly, few demonic powers are responsible for the pacts that create warlocks. As any planar scholar would tell you, demons fixate on rampant destruction over planned corruption, which means that most don't have the interest (or talent) required to broker such deals. (...)

Fey:
A growing number of warlocks draw their power from the mystical realm of faerie. Fey have always enjoyed a special link to the magical energy that suffuses the natural world, and most sages agree that mortals - even the long-lived elves- can't begin to comprehend the sheer untapped potential that rests within faeriekind. (...)
A feyblooded warlock is equally likely to be a well-meaning chaotic good, an unpredictable chaotic neutral, or a coldly malevolent neutral evil individual. (...)

Slaadi: (this is my favourite! )
As beings of pure chaos unconcerned with matters of morality, few slaadi care enough to make pacts with mortals. Some of the most potent of them, however, such as the mightiest of the death slaadi, occasionally empower warlocks for their own unfathomable reasons. Warlocks whose power derive from the slaadi can be of any alignment, but most are chaotic.

Celestials:
The mere suggestion that the paragons of virtue would grant such dark powers to mortals seems at first to be unworthy of discussion. However, some particularly wild or chaotic celestials, such as the eldarins, share more in common with the fey than with archons or angels. Is it so inconceivable that the mighty denizens of the Court of Stars (the eldarin lords detailed in Book of Exalted Deeds) might see fit to share some fragment of their power with charismatic mortals?
A warlock who has celestial power to thank for his invocations is most likely to be chaotic good, though such power has also been known to corrupt even the most well-meaning soul. For another take on a celestial-themed warlock, see the enlightened spirit prestige class (page 60).

So according to this, celestials may grant warlock powers. But that is snowflaky.

Thanks DG...more research needs to be done on my part, I appreciate the reference!

[Malanthyus]

Hiya folks, in my quest for origins, I find myself researching the shoon imperium. Specifically any survivors of the much variety, but the fr wiki has been less than helpful. Any other sources for info about them?

[Lazarus]

Not sure if this thread is still in use, but here goes. Does someone know the year Thieve's guild called Astorians were enstablished in Teziir and what would their status be during the current year or past years of this server timeline. I recall Night Masks in Westgate were formed 1353, which is 2 years from now and the two guilds are main rivals right?

[thids]

I took a quick glance at my pd... ahem I mean "legally acquired source books", and I can't seem to find a date for their foundation. They aren't really explained in much detail aside from the fact that they at first rival Night Masks and then later on they are infiltrated by Night Masks to such measure that the Masks basically control them.


edit: They MIGHT be explained in more detail in the novel called "Temple Hill" by Drew Karpyshyn... But I don't usually defile my patrician taste with stuff like Forgotten Realms novels , so I haven't read it. I'd go ahead and guess that there isn't much detail provided in that either, at the very least no detail as to the time of their founding. The novel takes place between 1370. and 1372.

[Lazarus]

I took a quick glance at my pd... ahem I mean "legally acquired source books", and I can't seem to find a date for their foundation. They aren't really explained in much detail aside from the fact that they at first rival Night Masks and then later on they are infiltrated by Night Masks to such measure that the Masks basically control them.


edit: They MIGHT be explained in more detail in the novel called "Temple Hill" by Drew Karpyshyn... But I don't usually defile my patrician taste with stuff like Forgotten Realms novels , so I haven't read it. I'd go ahead and guess that there isn't much detail provided in that either, at the very least no detail as to the time of their founding. The novel takes place between 1370. and 1372.

Yeah, I found little info of them on Pirates of Fallen Star, Sea of Fallen Star or a few campaign settings books in um... My personal library. I guess they can be used in my characters story then.

[Rhifox]

Where would be the best place to look to find information on spirits/the spirit world in DnD/FR? I've gone through a lot of books but very few seem to give more than a brief mention of spirits (and when they are mentioned it's typically just with monster stats). Even Complete Divine (where Spirit Shaman is introduced) and Unapproachable East (Rashemen) don't really say much about them. As I'm playing a spirit shaman I'd like to have a better idea of how DnD/FR handles the spirit world. Right now I'm relying on RL and WoD inspiration for lack of knowing where to start in DnD material.

Found what I needed myself. Faiths and Avatars (2E), Oriental Adventures (3E), Primal Power (4E), Encyclopaedia Divine: Shamans - The Call of the Wild (3E Third Party).

[Clockwork]

I have 2 bonus languages to pick. What would be common to a native human of the region? I imagine that at most they would have likely picked up a few words to be passable in say Dwarven.

[Rhifox]

Baldur's Gate sits on the border between the Sword Coast region and the Western Heartlands region.

For Sword Coast natives, Illuskan is a primary language, with Chondathan, Dwarven, Giant, Halfling, and Orc being common bonus languages.

For Western Heartlands natives, Chondathan or Tethyrian are primary languages, with Elven, Giant, Goblin, Illuskan, Midani, Orc, and Turmic as common bonus languages.

(src: Player's Guide to Faerun 3.5ed)

[Maximvs]

Celestials don't grant powers the same way other evil outsiders do. Devils and such will ask for your soul, first born of each generation or something and grant you standard warlock powers. Celestials do not seek out souls to empower themselves in the same way because of the old "pact primeval".

The pact primeval done by Asmodeus and his crew with the gods of the time was so they could punish people without the help of the gods, using the souls of the punished to fuel their power rather than asking gods to fuel them. Then, of course, the fallen celestials started tempting mortals to have more mortals to punish, and thus more souls to fuel their powers with.

Celestials are not in a constant hunt for souls to fuel their plane and power, so they don't make standard pacts. The closest thing to a pact is calling one over with a spell and he she will probably help you if it's a good cause, or certain rituals can allow a celestial to inhabit the body of a willing person.

[Homura]

Not sure if this is the place to ask:

What's the deal with Favored Souls?

Are you born a favored soul & always just know it, or can you just wake up one day at some point in your ordinary life and suddenly 'awaken' or realize you're a favored soul then? The only thing I'm sure of is that it doesn't seem to be a person's choice to be a favored soul, they just are. And their powers aren't earned or granted, they just are. I don't even know if it's up to the god itself which particular person is a favored soul or why.

If you're the favored soul of a particular god, do you just sort of inherently embody everything (values,personality) about that god, or is it normal for a favored soul to fall short of their god in a lot of ways? Since you're born a favored soul, you can't fall like a paladin, or your god cannot refuse to help you like a cleric who needs to atone for something. Does the god really have any say in how their favored souls act, or commonly provide any direct guidance to them? Do the gods even necessarily like their favored souls or have grand plans for them, or are favored souls some kind of cosmic accident, that a mortal is born with some small mote of a god's power? Actually, since you just happen to be a favored soul rather than choose to be one, is there even any expectation/requirement that you'd have any significant knowledge of religion, even of your own god's?

Lastly, what is the common knowledge on "favored Souls?" Would a favored soul *know* that they are called a favored soul specifically? If a person saw a favored soul would they know it or just think they're a less trained, haphazard cleric? Would a FS think, "huh I can cure diseases with a touch, and I feel an odd power within me that I don't understand," - or more like, "Ahh yup, guess I'm one of those favored souls, that explains everything."

Thanks for any fluff/tips anyone can offer. I know next to nothing of Faerun still.

Sincerely,
A favored soul on this very server.

[Boddynock]

Not sure if this is the place to ask:

What's the deal with Favored Souls?

Are you born a favored soul & always just know it, or can you just wake up one day at some point in your ordinary life and suddenly 'awaken' or realize you're a favored soul then? The only thing I'm sure of is that it doesn't seem to be a person's choice to be a favored soul, they just are. And their powers aren't earned or granted, they just are. I don't even know if it's up to the god itself which particular person is a favored soul or why.

If you're the favored soul of a particular god, do you just sort of inherently embody everything (values,personality) about that god, or is it normal for a favored soul to fall short of their god in a lot of ways? Since you're born a favored soul, you can't fall like a paladin, or your god cannot refuse to help you like a cleric who needs to atone for something. Does the god really have any say in how their favored souls act, or commonly provide any direct guidance to them? Do the gods even necessarily like their favored souls or have grand plans for them, or are favored souls some kind of cosmic accident, that a mortal is born with some small mote of a god's power? Actually, since you just happen to be a favored soul rather than choose to be one, is there even any expectation/requirement that you'd have any significant knowledge of religion, even of your own god's?

Lastly, what is the common knowledge on "favored Souls?" Would a favored soul *know* that they are called a favored soul specifically? If a person saw a favored soul would they know it or just think they're a less trained, haphazard cleric? Would a FS think, "huh I can cure diseases with a touch, and I feel an odd power within me that I don't understand," - or more like, "Ahh yup, guess I'm one of those favored souls, that explains everything."

Thanks for any fluff/tips anyone can offer. I know next to nothing of Faerun still.

Sincerely,
A favored soul on this very server.

Well you sort of bring the elephant in the room full on into the spotlight with this one. But it has a relatively simple answer, followed by a convoluted explanation. That answer is a favored soul can be however and act however and do whatever they like, with no thought as to the deity that favors them whatsoever. Now for the explanation...

The reason that FvS RP is so open is because so many possibilities exist, all that is required to be favored is that a god favors a person for some reason and decided to grant them powers. The person doesn't even have to know why they or favored, or even that they are favored. A person can be favored of Helm and actually be serving in the church of Tyr, preach Tyr's dogma, and never know it was Helm granting him his abilities the whole time, so long as some aspect of that person gained Helm's attention and favor.

It gets more complicated when you consider that someone can be favored by a deity but not have any levels of FvS (which is one of the primary reason I have such a problem with the class, it makes no sense). Or when you consider that you can be a deity's chosen, but not a favored soul.

So lorewise, it is as well understood as the whims of the oft fickle and vain deities of the realms can be understood, which is not very well at all most of the time.

From an OOC perspective, in order to be favored one must exhibit some characteristic that would garner that deities favor. So in the Tyr/Helm example above, a PC might serve the church of Tyr as a temple guard, and practice that faith primarily. Yet in doing so he is such a dutiful and stalwart guardian that he attracts Helm's notice and gains his favor in some way. He might not know it, Tyr might not even know it. ut as long as there is SOMETHING there that agrees with Helm's dogma he can be favored.

That something, however, can be woefully obscure at times, because FR deities are so human in their passions and appetites.

[Calodan]

Well you sort of bring the elephant in the room full on into the spotlight with this one. But it has a relatively simple answer, followed by a convoluted explanation. That answer is a favored soul can be however and act however and do whatever they like, with no thought as to the deity that favors them whatsoever. Now for the explanation...

The reason that FvS RP is so open is because so many possibilities exist, all that is required to be favored is that a god favors a person for some reason and decided to grant them powers. The person doesn't even have to know why they or favored, or even that they are favored. A person can be favored of Helm and actually be serving in the church of Tyr, preach Tyr's dogma, and never know it was Helm granting him his abilities the whole time, so long as some aspect of that person gained Helm's attention and favor.

It gets more complicated when you consider that someone can be favored by a deity but not have any levels of FvS (which is one of the primary reason I have such a problem with the class, it makes no sense). Or when you consider that you can be a deity's chosen, but not a favored soul.

So lorewise, it is as well understood as the whims of the oft fickle and vain deities of the realms can be understood, which is not very well at all most of the time.

From an OOC perspective, in order to be favored one must exhibit some characteristic that would garner that deities favor. So in the Tyr/Helm example above, a PC might serve the church of Tyr as a temple guard, and practice that faith primarily. Yet in doing so he is such a dutiful and stalwart guardian that he attracts Helm's notice and gains his favor in some way. He might not know it, Tyr might not even know it. ut as long as there is SOMETHING there that agrees with Helm's dogma he can be favored.

That something, however, can be woefully obscure at times, because FR deities are so human in their passions and appetites.

DIvine champion comes to mind with a deity granting favor. Some of there things are bound to being favored by said deity.

[Homura]

That's very useful, and I appreciate the open-endedness of the lore on this subject. At the very least it relieves me of concerns that I'd be imagining & presenting my character too incorrectly!

[Bhaalorian]

Has anything happened in Mulhorand that isn't a part of the canon lore or history?