Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Aye...Recently i have lost all my interest in playing here.

Due to poor pvp/rp experiences.

1st scenario: Im a druid in shapeform. Person fires a fireball at me not turning hostile i might add making me go fugue if i had died. Luckily i was going through cloakwood and survived the blast(thx to druid buffs i wasnt really hurt). I did a *Agressively growls at the wizard* (name too complicated to type out in a hurry <.<) The wizard said nothing fired another fireball with similar effect. Then i attacked taking it as pvp consent. The person got mad and went to the FAI campfire and reported that Neiro had assaulted him. Mind you i doubt he had true seeing on.

2nd. I jump out of the bushes in Ent form and say *In a barky voice the ent asks for 1000 coin or your life* Now the person coulda said "runs away" or done some rping bartering the price etc. Instead he just continues on the road and goes through the teleporter. (i followed for a while trying to rp something with no response)

3rd. Having a full head helmet showing my cheek & eyes dont seem to bother players at all in seeing my face recognised. (i have to remove it to get into fai i might add)

I fought my way down the gnoll cave. A goody2shoes paladin lookalike was bashing a chest.
I rped that i wanted the chest contents asking him to step away or feel my fury. The person then looted, Buffed himself then said "Not going to fight you" without any (( or other markers and left.

If you say that evil is possible on this server. It is only if you ask a friend of yours to play the part of good that it works. Anyone saying otherwise is plain wrong.

I am just gonna roll a good guy or quit. If rules were fair you should be able to fight anyone that your PC thinks is not acting the way an rp out appropriate for the situation. Imo the paladin coulda threathend, barterd,used diplomacy rolls, etc or just plain smited me. The runs away option shouldnt be a "calmly walks away fully aware that you just tried to rob him"

Aye i have had some several fun instances as well. We were down the gnoll cave i got an ooc tell asking if i wanted to buy a scimitar for my level i said yes the person came down to us i bought the scimitar without changing from my big cat form. My group Rped with the person and finally stood in front of the door of the room we were in and robbed the person of a few hundred coin for letting her out alive. She was a higher lvl toon and most likely coulda floored us all. Instead she RPed and payd us off. (i cant see a gnome taking on 5 ppl willingly for the sake of 500coin) No doubt she couldve barterd with us etc.

But Most people playing on this server cant take the hurt on the ego the half a minute lie down and wake up with full hp and no memory of the incident. Id understand if wed send em to fugue that people would be upset....

Yeah, being evil unless you are very very careful is well...a brag. Need to find a group that you can run with(even then, PvP is generally not a good idea...as then you just get hassled) or play smart quiet infiltrating evil.

This is my suggestion:

Change the rules slightly. Making RP out being paying off,bartering w/e the situation requires.(does not necessarily mean the opponent agrees with you and you may still end up fighting)

And OOC out: where the memory of the incident is wiped & punishment in place for the metagaming that might occur.

If failure to do either you are free to slay. All in all its a half a minute lie down for the person then he can continue.

AS you probably know by now. PvP is not everyone's cup of tea. Some will engage you in it others will not. This is not WoW were there are clearly defined factions of what is good or what is evil and there are many interpretations as to why characters have either outted you or have ignored your characters hostility that does not resort to metagaming. Sometimes the details are left outside of your own knowledge.

Many many many characters that have gone down the path of evil ambush RP find it pretty fruitless because they feel the OOC playerside of things when things go badly and indeed they do. it is the nature of PVP in many instances to get a mixed reaction from your supposed "victims". We have addressed countless complaints about the issue of player vs player and good vs evil but it cannot be fully resolved since it many relies on the perspective of the individuals engaged in the PvP. Some are willing participants, others are not and look down upon those actions. I liken it to swearing, some people think swearing it's no big deal and are comfortable with profuse verbal profanity, others will feint if you swear casually at them, and a few will get enraged and confront you about the issue.

Different strokes for different folks is basically what it comes down too, which is why the playerbase kind of gravitates away from pvp confrontations because 8 of 10 times it comes out with someone being dissatisified with the results. Those odds are hard to ignore and I can definately see why you get the response you get, especially the avoidance from other player characters.

One way to help ensure that your PvP attempt will be well received is too give some build-up or warning that things are about to happen. Simple banditry often doesn't work well since it is an ultimatum.. "give me X or Y will happen". There isn't much to work with in that scenario and it also leaves some room for things to get personal between you and the other player(s).

Buidling up evil RP to some scheme, manipulation, or deception is more popular and often has better results since it drives others to be involved in the story you are giving them. The bandit ambush doesn't really tell a story or engages an opponent and it is more akin to what an NPC is programmed to do not what a 3 dimensional PC is expected to do.

Finally, PvP or conflict is about trust. You have the trust of your fellow players in your hands when you engage them in your RP, hostile or not. Don't expect everyone to see eye to eye on how you would play out the scenario. You need to be open minded about their reactions, find a new approach that interests players to get involved in either helping you commit evil or thwarting your evil plans. It is about trust, trust that you can create a beleivable scenario for others to play in that will not take advantage of their vulnerabilities out of character or put them at some unfair or permanent disadvantge.

Evil RP is hard because often times you are the facilitator and are responsible for the fun for everyone involved. If people are not having fun in your diatribe or have ignored you that means you haven't really done a good job in making a scenario appealing for them to participate in, RP alone is sometimes not enough incentive for a PC to engage in. Just like most will not emote or interact with EVERYTHING that surrounds them in the game environment because it is not very practical and they have to be selective in what they partake in.

Believe me it's hard to create a successful evil or even good scenario out of thin air. Every DM knows this because that is what we do and at times we get the same reactions that you do when our plots or actions were not well thought out.

Its like me ignoring a good player or a fist npc how is that against the rules When simple banditry does not work according to you. I see alot of room in a bandit act of the way i described if its an evil toon they could after rping for a while join you, The good person might barter,bluff me into thinking he does not have money, slay me and bring me to the fist or leave me lyin in the ditch.

Not to mention all the warlocks running around claiming to be evil and not having done a single evil act in their whole play time other than verbally abuse others.(which seems to be the extent of what this server allows for other than agreement in ooc).

And you might consider joining the PVP fanclub or ask whoever Merrok's and Zaknadra D'maquis's players are about bandit RP, they are making a bandit team.

Already had a bandit group in the progress of being made. Why would i join some other randoms i havent met?

Whats the point of having a bandit group when its not about robbing people but about going around asking wether someone wants to be robbed.

(even that would be fine if there were no repercushions to my playtoon from the person(s) we asked to rob showing up with a army of zealoted dogooders with a couple warlocks as a sidedish being good)

Neiro wrote:Its like me ignoring a good player or a fist npc how is that against the rules When simple banditry does not work according to you. I see alot of room in a bandit act of the way i described if its an evil toon they could after rping for a while join you, The good person might barter,bluff me into thinking he does not have money, slay me and bring me to the fist or leave me lyin in the ditch.

Not to mention all the warlocks running around claiming to be evil and not having done a single evil act in their whole play time other than verbally abuse others.(which seems to be the extent of what this server allows for other than agreement in ooc).

It's up to you, but so far that way of thinking hasn't gotten you very far with those that you have tried to impose your RP on. There is a good way to do things and bad way. Sometimes you get burned other times you find success. Rules won't make players not take things personally, it won't make them agree to what you are trying to do their character especially if they are completely put off by what you did or are trying to do. Those characters will just push for rules to limit you more while you push for rules that liberate you more and limit them.

This why we currently have the "RP out" clause or why you cannot openly PvP people without giving them an RP out before setting hostile. This server goes back quite a long time and within that time we had much more lax rules about pvp and evil ultimatum RP and drow which basically led to massive complaints. Those complaints helped shaped the rules we have today and they were meant to stymie RP that would lead to open hostility with absolutely no other reason than "my character is evil, so deal with it".

Banditry RP has the potential to be great but as it is being used now (direct extortion) has failed many many times and has been the cause of quite a large amount of complaints from players who've felt taken advantage of and not at all having a good time. If the other player is not having a good time then yes, they can ignore you and I encourage that. Just like if they were not having a good time in one our DM events, I expect to hear their complaints and non-compliance if the DM is being unfair or has completely taken advantage of the situation because of their status on the PW.

So yes, if a fist NPC was being ignored and for good reason OOC and IC'ly then I expect to hear about and know both sides of the story as too what caused the failure.

Banditry RP has the potential to be great but as it is being used now (direct extortion) has failed many many times and has been the cause of quite a large amount of complaints from players who've felt taken advantage of and not at all having a good time. If the other player is not having a good time then yes, they can ignore you and I encourage that.

I dont see how open extortion is any different than anything else. Its RP wether the person likes it or not. If we follow that logic its unfair to get jailed etc by the fist or dms by the persons metagaming or rping out and reporting you for trying to rob them. In the end it destroyed my fun ooc & ic, Following that logic i should be able to just ignore the fist soldier jailing me cuz well i felt it wasnt fun?

Also i am one of those persons that tend to dislike swearing. I had a epic level dwarf swear at my pc for 5minutes and would i have turned hostile i woulda died by A the fist soldier standing a few yards away,Jailed or fined,slain by the dwarf or all of what i mentioned.

There are too many loopholes in your rules making an evil character only being taken advantage for the good time of the good characters if you fail to see it i believe you should try playing a neutral character in it for coin & then not using your connections since if your new you dont know anyone other than the persons you meet. How well do you think it will go?

Not well id say.

It's up to you, but so far that way of thinking hasn't gotten you very far with those that you have tried to impose your RP on. There is a good way to do things and bad way. Sometimes you get burned other times you find success. Rules won't make players not take things personally, it won't make them agree to what you are trying to do their character especially if they are completely put off by what you did or are trying to do. Those characters will just push for rules to limit you more while you push for rules that liberate you more and limit them.

I do not see why it would limit them in a RP way to have an ooc out where they loose the knowledge of meeting me. Please inform me your way of thinking. After all theyd lose only 30sec of their time if theyd die and none if theyd give a ((no thx.

Going around asking ppl if i can rob them will only get me killed by metagamers showing up with a mob of good characters in tow.

It's really not about robbing people or asking them if it is ok. It's about creating something that is enjoyable.

As far as them metagaming you then yes, that is against the rules. If they somehow learned your name when you attempted to rob them or interact with them without you divulging the information then that is metagaming and we punish that severely.

In the case of the RP out, the RP out in banditry RP is to meet the conditions or face PvP consequence. If a player opts NOT to be involved in your event because they simply dislike you no one is going to force them to face consequences in RP they adamantly refuse to take part in, this also means that they cannot rengage back into the scenario after the imminent threat of PVP or whatever hostile actions had passed.

So telling you OOC that they hate you, your character and will ignore the RP, is fine but going back and reporting the situation to an NPC or others to doll out consequences for you is DEFINATELY NOT. If that is the scenario than it's on you to report that to the staff members.

As far as evil being a punching bag for good. No one said anything about that but there needs to be some discretion here. Basically, no one can really permakill each other and your characters will face each other over over and over again at one point, so if you are outted as being evil in a LAW ABIDING LAND don't expect that to go unnoticed by some.

Evil does have a difficult time staying alive here, that is because many evil players haunt locales that are in close proximity to law enforcement. So it is a forgone conclusion that any obvious evil will eventually get routed by an opposing player, because the sand box is literally that small. Go outside of that jurisdiction and there will be more opportunity to do evil acts with less consequence.

Again, the scenario in which a player has taken the out would be that they meet the conditions you set aside for them. If they don't hostile and pvp them.

It's simple if you really want to be a bandit:

Bandit PC: give your gold and valuables... anything!

Victim: I .. I don't want to get hurt

Bandit PC: Fork it over! Now!!

VictimL I rather not... good day *turns to walk away*

Bandit PC: *Attacks*

that is cut and dry...

now if the victim pays you or you let them go and gives your name to others when it was never mentioned that is metagaming and needs to be reported.

If the victim tells you to get lost OOC'ly then you can agree to disagree and move on, if they try to do things against you IC and resume the conflict after the confrontation and threat is over than again that needs to be reported since they opted out of the scenario in the first place.

Is that clear enough?

TheVoid wrote:If the victim tells you to get lost OOC'ly then you can agree to disagree and move on

I never saw anything in the rules regarding giving players OOC outs. This is an RP server, so players are expected to RP the interaction, and if they choose they can take the RP out provided.

Also, I didn't think that asking another player for gold or items was considered an adequate RP out. A bandit could ask for 1 million gold pieces, which would inevitably lead to PvP since no one would pay the fine.

Aye that is clear enough. Thank you. That means it will still be possible to have fun with banditry. Thanks for your time. However the loopholes are subject to interpretation as ive tried to shed some light on.

Again, the scenario in which a player has taken the out would be that they meet the conditions you set aside for them. If they don't hostile and pvp them.

This is what i was looking for. I shall quote you if i ever have any issues then. Thank you for your time.

Molag__Bal wrote:

TheVoid wrote:If the victim tells you to get lost OOC'ly then you can agree to disagree and move on

I never saw anything in the rules regarding giving players OOC outs. This is an RP server, so players are expected to RP the interaction, and if they choose they can take the RP out provided.

Also, I didn't think that asking another player for gold or items was considered an adequate RP out. A bandit could ask for 1 million gold pieces, which would inevitably lead to PvP since no one would pay the fine.

Aye...well i was here talking about the people just plain ignoring your attemt at their ic life. Also the bandit has to have some thoughts in the back of his head about how much money & what he will take as adequate rp outs being less money, no money if the person cons him, diplomacy rolls etc etc. There is tons of stuff the victim could rp while the bandit has to wait for the response and asking for a million would mean the PC is either insane or metagaming. That should only need a screenshot and a report if something happens.

Because your banditry doesn't pay, doesn't that mean you are doing it wrong?

On Saturday, on my character who has about 10 +1d20 perform, I made her pretend to be an old beggar in ragged torn down clothes. In about hour and half I hade made some 2301 units of inventory gold. One chap gave 1000, other 500, third 200, and the rest were between 100 and 5 coins.

And basically, it was very simple, emote your character appearing weak, extend your hand for alms... say nice things if they give money, and cuss if they don't. Heck, I do not even believe I typed more than 20-30 words per 'victim'.

And having said that, didn't Hellstorm crew try robbing people in the past, for several weeks, and ended up with 500 coins, some cheap gems, and a ton of player complaints?

(P.S. Do you think I should be running the Thieves Guild?)

Simian Approbatur wrote:(P.S. Do you think I should be running the Thieves Guild?)

NO!

But seriously, no.