Roleplay Experience

[DM Novus]

My personal opinion on this.


I would absolutly support a way to earn XP by mostly chatting. Yes, it doesn't make 'sense' to become a better fighter by chatting, but I don't care.

Everyone has personal opinions—the point is to consider a new script that will have a fundamental change on how Players spent their time gaming on BGTSCC. And that can't be made because some are of the opinion it's a good idea, and some aren't.

A change like this has to be assessed for its merits, the challenge to implementing it, and weighing the good and bad aspects.

Those that spend more time on BG chat-role playing will obviously see the incentive. Those that adventure and slay monsters will either not see the "big deal" with the new script, or will only care if it negatively effects them.

The fundamental change is that PCs could sit in a tavern for hours and discuss ANYTHING, and mechanically improve their skills and powers. Is that OK with the majority of Players?

Is the real issue that the current RP XP system and cap—which by the way currently favors Epic level PCs—just needs to work more reliably, and at a faster rate?

Does leveling via Chatting under the theme of Chatting=Roleplay seem a good means to improve Roleplay, or does this proposed system just reduce the attention to adventuring, since its actually less risk to Chat and level versus take on the Goblin Horde and level?

[Simian]

No adventuring = No new money or equipment.

Such as Sorcerers and Wizards require no equipment at all. Clerics and Favoured Souls have very minimalistic equipment needs. Then comes the Druids who wildshape, and all other base classes in various order. But the problem is, some of the characters such as Fighters and Rogues are extremely dependant on equipment to tackle chalenges they face.

So, given the above, yes it would be great for classes that are not item dependant and players who can stand the campfire mentality. But as for others, it is still a necessity to take on the Goblin Horde to level. And that is the big 'bummer' in this change. It feels slighty unfair, in a way.

[illithid]

My opinion

Roleplaying is player driven, not because of mechanics but because of enjoyment through roleplaying. It's a culture not a means of gaining XP, that said...

Improvements made to the RP system will inevitably give greater reward to genuine roleplayers who, at this point, would not gain such benefit. However, no matter what changes are made there will always be some who find loopholes and break the system, even with what you have posted Rasael, there will be a group of 5 people somewhere sitting in a circle typing a,b,c as fast as they can, and yet this is not really any different to the exploits used at the moment.

Staff will never break the grinders or the exploiters, because they don't have the man power to do such a thing. If they want to introduce more RP into the server there needs to be a change to the culture, a change in the mechanics would, maybe, I think, help this; but there are also many other ways this can happen, my envious readings of DM event write ups are one that personally moved me to focus more on what I was actually doing when I played the game.

Making a mechanical reason to RP does necessarily contribute to roleplay. If I end up seeing an extra 47 *nods* a day, it wont sell the concept as a success; however I don't really care for the people who *nod* all day, and couldn't care less what their level is, if people who are making genuine attempts to 'play BGTSCC' are given reward for their efforts then it feels partly justified. As long as those players don't feel unjustified because one eyed noddy in the corner is outpacing their grand scheming which is on a totally different level.

I'm six of one half a dozen.

- On a side note with regard chatting improving swordsmanship, I guess it wouldn't be applicable to everyone but a RL situation: Didn't Nick Faldo ditch his old swing to learn a new one, practiced for months without actually hitting a golf ball, his coach wanted him to perfect the swing then have the ball just 'happen to be in the way' , he then went on to win the 1990 Masters? not quite analogous but the idea behind relates

[Simian]

Anyhow, if you get better RP experience inside TAVERNS and INNS. Then I am kind of all for it. Because that might just nudge people towards better role-playing.

[TheSpaniard]

I want to see more people RPing, and less people running around doing weekly quests (running, to make it quick as it's repetitive, often doing them invisible as they're not doing it for RP or to train, but oocly, just to get the 600 xp), or running around for hours at the troll hills or the giants.

Everyone responding to this thread agrees with you on this point, but we're discussing the possible pros and cons for solutions to this problem.

Anyway, if this proposal is being put forth in hopes of slowing down or stopping the MMO mindset, I don't think it will. People that grind won't be affected by it, so they will continue on course. Something much more drastic than increasing RP experience is necessary for us to see more role-play and less MMO mindset. And honestly, making it less practical to "grind" for hours on-end, is a good way to start pushing people to role-play more when they go adventuring. Therefore, this will bring newer people into the role-play scene, which is a good thing.

The current proposal benefits the people that already role-play, it won't be a strong enough motivator to increase the number of role-players. By changing PvE to be less in the style of a MMO would powerfully alter things for the better, though the downside of this idea is that it would be a more difficult change to implement. However, logically, if you want to remove the MMO mindset you must remove the MMO way of leveling.

[talisen]

Is the real issue that the current RP XP system and cap—which by the way currently favors Epic level PCs—just needs to work more reliably, and at a faster rate?

That's a start, too. I think the current system needs some kind of refinement, but if people aren't comfortable with something more radical, let's at least do something less so. If the team (or the player base) doesn't want to go with the system we are discussing, then we could to with implementing some refinements to the current system, with more reliable distribution and boosts in certain areas.

[Wolfrayne]

Personally i have very little time to play. I have only a couple of hours a day if i am lucky and only a few more on weekends and to be perfectly honest i would much rather spend that time with a group of people wandering around chatting adventuring in different places rather than running around the same spot for 3 hours to "get 1 more level"

I have a job, Girlfriend and other real life responsibilites that can not be ignored to sit and grind for XP. I love btgscc, always have i keep coming back because i enjoy the game and the people i have met, the RP etc is what makes this place better than the others.

Anything that can be done to make more RP happen is fine by me. XP does not have to be incredibly fast however you still need to feel that you can progress just as much as anyone else despite the fact that they can sit and farm 1 area for 10 hours a day.

[Rasael]

Personally i have very little time to play. I have only a couple of hours a day if i am lucky and only a few more on weekends and to be perfectly honest i would much rather spend that time with a group of people wandering around chatting adventuring in different places rather than running around the same spot for 3 hours to "get 1 more level"

I have a job, Girlfriend and other real life responsibilites that can not be ignored to sit and grind for XP. I love btgscc, always have i keep coming back because i enjoy the game and the people i have met, the RP etc is what makes this place better than the others.

Anything that can be done to make more RP happen is fine by me. XP does not have to be incredibly fast however you still need to feel that you can progress just as much as anyone else despite the fact that they can sit and farm 1 area for 10 hours a day.

I have been playing here since Josh and Driller had this PW with very little content, and I still have yet to reach L30. Just saying folks. I should have got on the grind train before all the caps went in. I remember when people would get buffed by a cleric with perma buffs and grind until they made level 21 in about a couple days lol.

That's exactly I think so many people would like to see this. I could not have formulated it more clearly. I feel We currently encourage and reward grinding much more than we do actual roleplay. We should be rewarding roleplay more.

[Blame The Rogue]

i still cant get past becoming a better warrior without combat

[Darksider_war]

i still cant get past becoming a better warrior without combat

A warrior emotes a training session with a mentor ---> gets RP XPs ---> levels up without actually fighting thanks to his mentor/tutor roleplay. Simple as that. The problem with scripts is just one: no script in the world will ever be able to influence the cerebral age of players. So yes, a warrior COULD get to 30 by chitty-chatting only, but it will show up in his roleplay eventually. Ergo the problem does not sussist, because frankly, who finds rping with a warrior that has gotten to lvl 30 by plucking daisies all the time interesting?

Also, let us not forget that we have very well roleplayed toons belonging to players that know their business that are STILL non epic despite years and years spent here. Look at a certain bardess, whose name is written on the memorial to the fallen at the FAI, her songs are nothing short of superb (thereby demonstrating that the player puts a lot of effort into his character) and isn't even lvl 20, after 3 years.

[Blame The Rogue]

yes, training rp, but not chattin with someone about the weather

don't get me wrong, i appreciate the xp available by rp. and quest xp. my feeling is that combat xp is still on the low side in epics. other than that, i like the current system/systems

[Considerate_]

In my opinion, if we removed all incentives/rewards from the game... No XP gains, no gold, no loot, from either grinding or roleplaying, most of the people remaining on the server would only be roleplaying.

You won't find people grinding tediously, without any incentive. Hence, we grant mechanical rewards to make it more appealing to Advendure/Grind.



Incentives works very well on the human psychology. If you reward a certain form of behaviour, then that's what you'll see more of. So the question is, is the balance between encouraging Advenduring/Grinding compared to Role Playing, in need of tweaking or not?

Personally, I think the optimal Player World would be one where the only incentives/rewards were granted by DMs - whether from adventuring/grinding or roleplaying. Unfortunately this is not feasibly, hence we have mechanical aspects to provide XP for grinding and loot from chests etc and RP XP awards.

I do think the balance between rewarding RP and rewarding Advenduring/Grinding are slightly skewered at the moment, and could use some changes. I'm in no way advocating for making Role Playing just as rewarding as Advenduring/Grinding, but I think making it more appealing might make others feel less forced into grinding least their character development starts outgrowing their 'boots' as someone put to eloquently

[scriver]

i still cant get past becoming a better warrior without combat

And my thief becomes a better pickpocket by stabbing people in the face - or, in fact, becomes better at talking to people by killing them. So what? DnD is not Exp-by-use like say, the Elder Scrolls series. The Exp system is and have always been an abstraction.

[Blame The Rogue]

your example is using thief skills to gain thief skills

[scriver]

My examples were 1, Fighting to gain pickpocket skills; and 2, Fighting to gain diplomacy skills. "Stabbing in the face" is not a thief skill

Also, I apologize if I sounded overly harsh before. I had just recently gotten out of bed and was still suffering from my morning grumpiness.