Updated Server Rules - Pregnancy requires DM approval?

[mireigi]

Don't see how "yes, but with DM assistance" would cause issues to anyone.

It's their opinion and they have their reasons for it. Some of us have a different opinion and that's just fine, as long as neither try to force the other to change their opinion.

Which is why the Rules were updated to reflect that:

Pregnancies are forbidden unless directly supervised by a DM, resulting from DM-authorized Role-play.

Furthermore:

As for the solution to those already pregnant: they will be informed their pregnancy has concluded, the child resides with relatives (or a safe zone, lore-appropraite), and since the child is essentially now an NPC, DMs are required to continue with Role-play of such an NPC.

Will there be a guideline, or ruleset posted for public view that players can examine if they want to set themselves up for DM supervised pregnancy? Both what is required (application form, build-up RP) and what is to be expected from the player(s) during such RP?

[grymhild]

I was being sarcastic about not being able to play a one-handed or eyed character, and I know the difference between a character model and a character sheet, but there is a lot of overlap, and people make assumptions about your character sheet based on your character model.

Your character model might be missing an eye - there are drow models like that for sure, maybe not others. And I know of certain characters that lost an eye or other maladies through a DM event - so we don't always strictly play what's on your character sheet in that case.

In my opinion Of COURSE you should be able to RP having a one-eyed or one handed character, or a half-dwarf ... as well as being allowed to RP being pregnant.

My point is that in some circumstances strict adherence to "play what's on your character sheet" hurts role-playing.

The "rules" are guidelines to facilitate role-playing, and shouldn't be looked at as unbreakable bars.

Instead of making these sweeping absolute rules, instead put down guidelines and handle exceptions on a player-centric case-by-case basis.

As for playing what's on your character sheet ... I guess that also means no one should have scars that aren't represented on your character, or a burned off face, hetero chromatic eyes (two different eye colors) - nope

These are model and texture renderings. not your character sheet. Don't confuse them.

and even if you have one-eye, well - can't do that because mechanically only having one eye should give you a penalty that isn't supported by the game engine (http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/One-Eye_%283.5e_Flaw%29), same goes for only having one hand, or being insane, or any number of other purely RP characteristics.

Es correcto.

Subject: GENERAL SERVER RULES [MUST READ]

– You are required to play what is on your Character Sheet. For example, no role-playing of another Race if it does not appear on your Character Sheet. In-character (IC) lying and misinformation about your Character's skills, profession and morality is fair and acceptable, but Role-play which does not reflect the Abilities, Feats and Skills that exist on your Character Sheet, is not acceptable.

[Shamshir]

I've voted "No", not for moral or logistic reasons.
Just because
as it seems

people can't (don't know how to) play it

There are enough issues with the regular RP, inserting pregnancy etc. would be deleterious.

[Marigold]

As the Parent of a 14 year old boy and a 12 year old girl I would love to introduce them to real role play vs what you see online in games such as Warcraft and runescape. Btw before someone points it out I do not let either of them play these. The thought of bringing them in game here to learn proper role play and they get subject to pregnancy related role play and what surrounds that leading up to it makes me sick. People playing off miscarriages and pregnancy in game is just sad for a RP server. If you tell me all the role play leading up to the pregnancy ends in fade to black I have a bridge I would love to sell you. When you have folks who for hours rp in a closed inn rooms or in the lighthouse south of candle keep within inches of each other tell me there is no erp going on. As a parent if my child got dragged into any of this and yes I would check the chat log of each session btw I would be furious and would take whatever action I deemed necessary to protect my children.

I have been going to Gecon for Years and taking part in events there and not once among elite gamers has anyone tried to RP this.

[Storm Munin]

Well, you are free to have whatever prejudice you want.

For all I know Nawiel and Sussuri have been a couple for six months real time and lately most of our rp has been in private quarters yet somehow no ERP has occured.. at all.
Maybe you should check in on those strangers you like to have opinions about?

Who knows, they might even be doing some down right decent roleplaying...


I believe a previous poster is correct though, the DMs have drawn the line.
The matter has been addressed, good and bad points has been made depending on who you ask.

Time to move on?

[NegInfinity]

When you have folks who for hours rp in a closed inn rooms or in the lighthouse south of candle keep within inches of each other tell me there is no erp going on.

Wow. If the only thing you can think of (in this situation) is ERP, that makes me really sad.
Sounds like a very bad case of jumping to conclusions.

Because one of my chars spent several hours - with another char, uncovering critical information related to character's story. In lighthouse, closed location, with alarm spell at the door and no ERP.

Seriously...

--edit--

Don't see how "yes, but with DM assistance" would cause issues to anyone.

It's their opinion and they have their reasons for it. Some of us have a different opinion and that's just fine, as long as neither try to force the other to change their opinion.

Meant to say that I voted "Yes, but with dm assistance".
Mostly because it is something I have no interest in, and something that is not going to involve any of my characters in foreseeable future. Just don't see the appeal, but if someone wants to RP that and DM allows that, why the heck not....

I'd rather play eryneyes or a magical cat (as in "cat sorcerer"). That sounds more fun to me.

[JCVD1]

As the Parent of a 14 year old boy and a 12 year old girl I would love to introduce them to real role play vs what you see online in games such as Warcraft and runescape. Btw before someone points it out I do not let either of them play these. The thought of bringing them in game here to learn proper role play and they get subject to pregnancy related role play and what surrounds that leading up to it makes me sick. People playing off miscarriages and pregnancy in game is just sad for a RP server. If you tell me all the role play leading up to the pregnancy ends in fade to black I have a bridge I would love to sell you. When you have folks who for hours rp in a closed inn rooms or in the lighthouse south of candle keep within inches of each other tell me there is no erp going on. As a parent if my child got dragged into any of this and yes I would check the chat log of each session btw I would be furious and would take whatever action I deemed necessary to protect my children.

I have been going to Gecon for Years and taking part in events there and not once among elite gamers has anyone tried to RP this.

That's called parenting and I applaud you for doing so. My baby daughter will slaughter innocents by the hundred on GTA 10 when she'll be 16 if she wants. But by then she'll know right from wrong, she'll probably know more about the bad things and sex than I knew at her age and understand what's real and fake, and not to trust the internet poeple.

That said, if you want to introduce them to PROPER MOTHERLY CONTROLED RP, I suggest you buy DnD books and play pens and paper. That's how I started, at 14 years old, when I thought the coolest thing was a sword and rolling funny looking dice. And then, let them fly toward Rp servers when they are 35.

[Marigold]

Thanks most likely it will be PNP sessions and then maybe a Gencon event or Two as well. Been playing with adults since i was 13 and it has been a very rewarding experience.

[Deathgrowl]

My point is that in some circumstances strict adherence to "play what's on your character sheet" hurts role-playing.

The "rules" are guidelines to facilitate role-playing, and shouldn't be looked at as unbreakable bars.

All games have rules and the moment someone breaks them, someone else playing the game will have less fun.

I'm not saying playing a half dwarf ruins the RP for anyone (but it is a bit look-at-me-look-at-me-I'm-special snowflake), but the line has to be drawn somewhere. And it is easiest to draw it at the character sheet.

The rules are rules. Not guidelines. If they were, they would have been called "guidelines".

[grymhild]

Have you ever heard of roleplaying Rule Zero?

http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Canon:Rule_0

"Have fun."

Dungeons and Dragons is a game, and as a game, it has rules. It is the job of the Dungeon Master to adjudicate these rules using the rulebooks. But when the rules allow something contextually nonsensical or disallows something that should be allowed, the Dungeon Master may change the rules.

"Roleplaying games are entertainment; your goal as a group is to make your games as entertaining as possible."

"Anything in this booklet (and other D&D booklets) should be thought of as changeable -- anything, that is, that the DM thinks should be changed... The purpose of these 'rules' is to provide guidelines that enable you to play and have fun, so don't feel absolutely bound to them."

"This game is unlike chess in that the rules are not cut and dried. In many places they are guidelines and suggested methods only."

D&D 3.5 states in several places that the DM can treat any rule as a mere suggestion at any time. Examples: bottom of page 64, Player's Handbook (Access to Skills), and most directly in the DMG on page 6: "Good players will always recognize that you have ultimate authority over the game mechanics, even superseding something in a rulebook."

My point is that in some circumstances strict adherence to "play what's on your character sheet" hurts role-playing.

The "rules" are guidelines to facilitate role-playing, and shouldn't be looked at as unbreakable bars.

All games have rules and the moment someone breaks them, someone else playing the game will have less fun.

I'm not saying playing a half dwarf ruins the RP for anyone (but it is a bit look-at-me-look-at-me-I'm-special snowflake), but the line has to be drawn somewhere. And it is easiest to draw it at the character sheet.

The rules are rules. Not guidelines. If they were, they would have been called "guidelines".

[Deathgrowl]

First quote: Agreed. DMs should be allowed to bypass rules (unless their bypass makes no sense within the setting...). Players should not, without the express permission from a DM.

Second quote: Yes. Entertaining. But make sure to make it entertaining for everyone. Not just yourself. Don't do immersion breaking stuff, for instance. Don't OOCly claim to be something you are not.

Third quote: This is the same as above. DMs' decisions. Also, we're using 3.5.

Fourth quote: It should always be the DMs' decisions. Players make bad decisions.

Fifth quote: Again, a DM choice. Not a player choice.

If you want to make something so snowflaky that it's not supported by the current rules, ask the DMs for permission. It is that simple.

[mireigi]

Regarding whether or not rules can be bent, circumvented, broken or blatantly ignored by DM support is likely a whole other topic. Although it is related in some way to this topic, it also entails so much more.

As for the discussion of this topic, pregnancy RP, the DMs have spoken and some clarification have been posted here - clarification that I hope is made into solid guidelines in the Server Rules section, posted as sub-rules of DM supported pregnancy RP.

That being said, I think that this thread can still continue to allow those with an interest in it, to continue the discussion, share viewpoints and cast their vote.

[Xanfyrst]

Children shouldn't play on this server anyway... in my opinion.

[NegInfinity]

All games have rules and the moment someone breaks them, someone else playing the game will have less fun.

In my experience, game is ruined when someone starts taking it TOO seriously and starts insisting he/she knows the only right way to play it. I've run into few people like that, it feels like slap in the face for no reason every time. Being too strict about rules culls number of people that can enjoy the game significantly. Take it too far and there will be 3 people on the whole planet that will enjoy playing with you.

A certain rp server for nwn1 server takes your house away if you don't show up for two weeks, requires you to spend 9 irl months to learn language (and rp lessons regularly) and if you want something unusual, like wings, you're required to sacrifice epic character for 5% chance of getting it. Stuff like that looks disgusting to me, since people that write things like that seems to forget that real life exists and people have bills to pay.

This is not a computer programming or engineering, where failure to strictly adhere to documentation or specific practice can cost you ridiculous amount of money, introduce equally costly long-term consequences or even kill people. This is something people are supposed to enjoy and play when they have time. This is also not a job.

So the point is NOT to follow rules strictly, but to find reasonable middle ground that does not upset significant portion of the server population. Because without server population, there won't be enough people to play with. Getting too comfortable with breaking rules will cause 90% of people to leave. Making them too strict will cause other 90% of people to leave.
So the point is to find that fine point when people still enjoy playing despite not having everything they want. Not to adhere to rules strictly.

Maintain balance, people. In the name of greater evil.

[PaulImposteur]

When I first was watching this topic, I was a little surprised at the resounding 'no' received at the idea of pregnancy. I have always felt that freedom of creativity is far more important, than rule lawyering, and that won't change. However, this is not a case of that.

The DM gave a very good example, regarding issues that could happen. Personally, I'm some what glad that it did happen (No offense intended) because it is a bit of an eye-opener.

Now imagine if this was just a player engaging in PVP, and robbing a pregnant woman. With people looking to draw blood, the DM's might have to react and punish that particular player. That possible scenario boils my blood.

So after that example, I went from 'Yes, we should allow' to 'No way'
While allowing pregnancy allows some characters development, it also hurts others.

If my character is a ruthless crook, whom beats people on the high-way, and steals their valuables, he should not have to completely change into a passive mugger, just because some lady says "I'm pregnant!". This is practically God-modding, and forcing a character to break the fourth-wall, acknowledge rules, and follow a predetermined path.

That is truly unfair, as now, by being 'pregnant', you're forcing OTHER people to adjust THEIR RP, to fit your OOC desires.

Being pregnant shouldn't be a PVP Out, because you shouldn't be pregnant.

______________________________________________________________

I should also state, I feel Pregnancy is absolutely PG-13, as is violence with children in some forms. (Kids lose arms in Pixar/Disney films guys.) and I feel the community and the server should be aiming for a more Adult rating(M).

With that said however, at many times, I'm extremely glad we are PG-13, as I feel some people would be to immature to understand what Mature rating is, vs condoning it. They may take this as a reason to just drop the F-bomb and other curses, Which I find kind of foolish, in a great many ways. Even with PG-13 rules, I see it still. While I cringe, it's not because of the word itself but, because it takes away from my immersion into my character.



Now that my post is done,
Good Thread! It was good to see the consequences and opinions of this topic.
In the End,

Good decision DMs, making it approved only. I appreciate your making quick action on these complex issues. I wish my Government was as fast acting as you!