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Re: Changes to loot system and promoting rp
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 2:57 pm
by Hoihe
Steve wrote:mrm3ntalist wrote:- Yes, steve is right. You wont be able to loot chests twice if you ant to spend more than 20mins in an area. If that is problematic, we will take a look at it. This is the first step of an overhaul of the loot system.
I see 2 things happening because of this change:
1) As Ncrawler states, he'll control 3+ Toons built for looting, and run the MADZ LOOTZ RUNZ everyday, all Day, even on Christmas. So will Calodan I'm assuming, as does Matt (though I'm not sure how crazy he is to do this, though he is crazy). If that isn't OOC behavior under some form of "acceptable" RP, in order to become the best Merchant IC, then...?
Hellz, I don't blame NCrawler and others for it—they're being ALLOWED to do it, atm.
2) Because of #1 above, there will be more MADZ LOOTZ dashing through Areas, and with the idea that "everyone gets a piece of the pie so why do you care if I don't RP cause I"m just here for the chests lolz have a nice day and stuff it," there is actually LESS NEED to RP.
I honestly can't understand why any of the changes were made, except to be OOC friendly to all Players in a Group. Because it is MORE REALISTIC to imagine a Group of any size, finding one chest, and having to RP how the items are split up, or not...and the REACTIONS from that IC situation is what determines or shows us personality, honor or lack of it, trickery, or generosity.
Now it's just blanket fairness.
And more so, you just increase the amount of RIG-generated crap that is getting into Player inventories, which will increase the amount of unusable Coin in toon's inventory, which will drive inflation for Items that are actually RARE...beyond the ridiculousness we already have on BGTSCC.
Look, I'm all for being "nice" to Groups, and to encourage Group RP/adventuring over solo looting...but if the handful of major Looters are already smiling and rubbing their hands over this new Change...I think the Powers That Be should actually start rethinking this.
With the previous system, developers had to balance the amount of chests for a party to be decently rewarded versus fear of a single looter taking it all.
This way, theoretically, they can afford to put just a few chests (maybe even one!) at the end of a dungeon and ensure everyone gets rewarded in the party while solo looters only get miniscule loot increase.
I cannot see how this is a bad thing.
Re: Changes to loot system and promoting rp
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:02 pm
by Steve
Hoihe wrote:This way, theoretically, they can afford to put just a few chests (maybe even one!) at the end of a dungeon and ensure everyone gets rewarded in the party while solo looters only get miniscule loot increase.
I cannot see how this is a bad thing.
Again, another setup where the outcome is predetermined, based on a pervasive and continually growing idea to be OOC fair, and...boring as all hell. You might as well put the chest at the entrance to the dungeon, letting the Looter just pop in, get his fix, and let the rest RP their way through the dungeon, knowing full well the prize is guaranteed...cause they got it at the entrance in fact!!!
Re: Changes to loot system and promoting rp
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:14 pm
by Calodan
At this point I think Steve just exists to provide counter argument......
I do not think anything we can put forth or brainstorm will break the unbreakable glass of Steve and his counter argument!
Not every person is going to be a fan of this new change and I am cool with that. I am just happy that the once promoted greedy system is now open for us all really. Blanket comfort or not it is just a game and we come here to have fun. OOC grinders that make us wait hours to get in on our fun is a bad thing and this lets the OOC grinders and RP people coexist without generating animosity which is the ultimate goal of fun. Lack of animosity and happy things you know?
Re: Changes to loot system and promoting rp
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:20 pm
by Hoihe
I do not see the outcome predetermined? Do take a look at my propose guild method to increase income.
Also do try and think about the ridiculousness of a dragon having a super tiny hoard [For OOC reasons to prevent solo looters exploiting it] that contains a single stein vs a large hoard a whole party digs into and finds various random items.
Previously developers had to unrealistically attend to the issue of over-rewarding solo looters versus providing realistic rewards. As previously said, it will make killing a dragon or a bandit lord or what have you much more realistic, as they are ought to have a sizeable hoard, this time not only represented by the gold piles but by items as well.
Re: Changes to loot system and promoting rp
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:22 pm
by Steve
Calodan wrote:Happy animosity and lack of things you know?
I fixed it for you, mate! LOL.
Hoihe wrote:Previously developers had to unrealistically attend to the issue of over-rewarding solo looters versus providing realistic rewards. As previously said, it will make killing a dragon or a bandit lord or what have you much more realistic, as they are ought to have a sizeable hoard, this time not only represented by the gold piles but by items as well.
Nice analogy...now apply that to the chests in the Houses in Baldur's Gate.
Re: Changes to loot system and promoting rp
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:24 pm
by Lockonnow
well the system just make the trade prices higher
Re: Changes to loot system and promoting rp
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:25 pm
by Hoihe
Steve wrote:Calodan wrote:Happy animosity and lack of things you know?
I fixed it for you, mate! LOL.
Hoihe wrote:Previously developers had to unrealistically attend to the issue of over-rewarding solo looters versus providing realistic rewards. As previously said, it will make killing a dragon or a bandit lord or what have you much more realistic, as they are ought to have a sizeable hoard, this time not only represented by the gold piles but by items as well.
Nice analogy...now apply that to the chests in the Houses in Baldur's Gate.
I did not even know there are lootable chests in the houses of Baldur's Gate. If there are, one can easily assume that a single house interior can represent multiple ones in order to save on server resources - thus, when multiple parties follow after one another they are actually in different houses.
As for a single adventuring party pilfering through a house - assume that you do not take from the chests but rather search the entirety of the house and every finds something different. We can't exactly mechanically represent searching a room for goods beyond placing a chest.
Lockonnow wrote:well the system just make the trade prices higher
I dare say it will reduce them as supply is ought to increase.
Re: Changes to loot system and promoting rp
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:32 pm
by thids
1. make a level 1 character and level it to level 5-6
2. make a level 1 character and level it to level 5-6
3. make a level 1 character and level it to level 5-6
4. make a level 1 character and level it to level 5-6
6. make a level 1 character and level it to level 5-6
7. make a level 1 character and level it to level 5-6
8. make a level 1 character and level it to level 5-6
9. proceed to loot kobold ruins over and over and over again
10. ????
11. profit?
Re: Changes to loot system and promoting rp
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:35 pm
by Steve
Hoihe wrote:I did not even know there are lootable chests in the houses of Baldur's Gate. If there are, one can easily assume that a single house interior can represent multiple ones in order to save on server resources - thus, when multiple parties follow after one another they are actually in different houses.
As for a single adventuring party pilfering through a house - assume that you do not take from the chests but rather search the entirety of the house and every finds something different. We can't exactly mechanically represent searching a room for goods beyond placing a chest.
Shows how little you actually know, Hoihe. Sure, we can imagine or assume anything we want...it's a damn fantasy game as it is, you know...where Players get to decide whether their toons is a male or female, a good or evil person, etc....all on a whim and because it suits.
If you're suggesting I go and make up a "story" to overcome the OOC change, sure, I'm quite capable of that, thank you. But that isn't the point, here. The point is that for OOC convenience sake, it is now easier to MADZ LOOTZ, without any need to RP. Everyone gets a piece of the pie in this system...which is very "untrue" to any sort of in-character "realism."
Hear me here: In my gaming, I attempt to react to how it
actually is IG, and not constructing extra levels of fantasy to explain why crap is wonky. So making it that a Chest always has something for everyone, is
conscious choice to instill MORE WONKINESS into the actual IG, IC experience.
Re: Changes to loot system and promoting rp
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 3:40 pm
by ShortRedandLoud
Thids wrote:1. make a level 1 character and level it to level 5-6
2. make a level 1 character and level it to level 5-6
3. make a level 1 character and level it to level 5-6
4. make a level 1 character and level it to level 5-6
6. make a level 1 character and level it to level 5-6
7. make a level 1 character and level it to level 5-6
8. make a level 1 character and level it to level 5-6
9. proceed to loot kobold ruins over and over and over again
10. ????
11. profit?
So... you've discovered my secret.
Re: Changes to loot system and promoting rp
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:24 pm
by Maecius
Please ease up on the combative back and forth or this thread will be locked.
Acquiring treasure is not against the rules, and if that's how someone wants to spend their time in game, more power to them. As long as the server rules are being obeyed, they've done nothing wrong.
Thank you to the developers, Mrieder79 in particular, who worked hard on this new system, in an effort to make the world more open and dungeons more available to all of our players.
Please keep feedback constructive, and, where possible, polite.
Re: Changes to loot system and promoting rp
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:27 pm
by mrm3ntalist
Thids wrote:1. make a level 1 character and level it to level 5-6
2. make a level 1 character and level it to level 5-6
3. make a level 1 character and level it to level 5-6
4. make a level 1 character and level it to level 5-6
6. make a level 1 character and level it to level 5-6
7. make a level 1 character and level it to level 5-6
8. make a level 1 character and level it to level 5-6
9. proceed to loot kobold ruins over and over and over again
10. ????
11. profit?
What prevents you doing the same thing with the old system? To be honest, i was doing this for a long time.
If the 5 mins you might have to wait worries you then you can have half chars on hiltop ruins half on gobolds or any other low level dungeon.
Re: Changes to loot system and promoting rp
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:49 pm
by chad878262
Looters are going to speed loot, no matter what... at least now those who want to adventure together without feeling slighted in the rewards category can do so.
Re: Changes to loot system and promoting rp
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:15 pm
by thids
mrm3ntalist wrote:Thids wrote:1. make a level 1 character and level it to level 5-6
2. make a level 1 character and level it to level 5-6
3. make a level 1 character and level it to level 5-6
4. make a level 1 character and level it to level 5-6
6. make a level 1 character and level it to level 5-6
7. make a level 1 character and level it to level 5-6
8. make a level 1 character and level it to level 5-6
9. proceed to loot kobold ruins over and over and over again
10. ????
11. profit?
What prevents you doing the same thing with the old system? To be honest, i was doing this for a long time.
If the 5 mins you might have to wait worries you then you can have half chars on hiltop ruins half on gobolds or any other low level dungeon.
Not as effectively as you can with this new system, you are forgetting people who are actually in there for the xp and the speed with which you can clear those dungeons with optimal gear and build at low level
But yes, you can do it to a degree now as well.
chad878262 wrote:Looters are going to speed loot, no matter what... at least now those who want to adventure together without feeling slighted in the rewards category can do so.
Well, look, I'm always the first one in favor of decreasing strictness in favor of the majority even if a minority will take advantage of that system. But the stance on BG has always been on majority of issues that the server needs to be harsh towards the "exploitative" minority at the expense of the majority, at least that's how it was presented from my perspective. I just don't know why the loot system was chosen for this precedence instead of experience gains (can't have those few with time on their hands and powerful builds level too fast!), or powerbuilding rules (can't have ridiculously strong builds! Some people might take advantage of that), quest system...
I personally don't loot now aside from the loot I get while leveling, and the only looting I would probably ever do would be for guild purposes. So the new system suits me just fine. If it was up to me, I would loosen the restrictions more, as this just encourages ridiculous things (like the example I have made above).
SRL, lemme hold a grand?
Re: Changes to loot system and promoting rp
Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 5:22 pm
by Steve
Subject: Changes to loot system and promoting rp
chad878262 wrote:Looters are going to speed loot, no matter what... at least now those who want to adventure together without feeling slighted in the rewards category can do so.
So now we're in a dungeon, a Group...and some flashy being runs past to get the Loot...but it's OK, cause the Chests are always full. No worrying if they are Invisible (and/or you see them cause of Perception). Nor, stealthing rogues.
The Looting Highway System. Very cool!