Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

I wasn't gonna chirp into this as I typically dislike these sorts of discussions, but here I go.

The only argument I've seen against the RCR maintaining is that 'it's fun to grow the character'. As the RCR isn't mandatory by any notion to create a new character, I have to say this is a flimsy argument. You don't have to use the RCR, if you truly enjoy the struggle from 1 - 30. It can be gratifying, at times, or it can be a absolute slog to get to the top plagued with inability to find a group, sometimes for RP reasons (my characters have typically been good aligned since my inception, and when you get a offer to RP group with a necromancer, you do what any sensibly minded person does and walk away.)

Then you have things like the persistent zone dominance that can end up happening in areas like the Xvart village, which further plague and add nothing but frustration to characters trying to get their levels on while being conflicted through RP. This typically leads to either pvp, or a singular PC being forced off of a map to go and grind, say for this scenario, the bears at high hedge despite the mob being inferior to the swarm of Xvarts one could kill. Hell, I've seen far higher level players PVP bait in that map trying to kill off good guys by 'joining the party', sapping the experience, and doing things like friendly fire to express their character's frustrations. While this has created unique RP, it typically ends in the same fashion. Lower level good guy tries to be good, and either goes away to return to tavern talk (shudders) or attempts PVP because he doesn't know he's totally outclassed, and gets slaughtered.

I'd also like to note, that your experience bar has absolutely nothing to do with 'personal growth'. The growth of a person continues well into old age mentally as you adapt to ever new situations, typically presented by other people. Yes, there is failure in life, and yes, there is growth to be done by the sword - but RP growth doesn't seem to be about that. And even if it was, there is still a RCR mechanic in the game. I used it myself many times for trying out new builds, as I am by no means a build monkey. NWN2 is a strange beast to me, and the mobs here are hard. The capacity to get a group together is hard. It is hard to level. It is hard to obtain what you had before. It's hard to balance this with things like school work, and classes, and work. And when you can still ploink back into the game somewhere close to 20, the argument further becomes diluted.

I personally though the limited 100% RCR was a pretty good idea. Not too much, not too little. Not too this, not too that. It could be held the last three days of the month every month, or less than that even. Peoples definition of what is fun is subjective entirely - for some, they'd like to take their new good, bad, or neutral character and dive right into what they think is fun, which is typically events. Some seem to truly enjoy dungeoning, and extracting loot/assembling wealth.

Me? I like a middle ground. When my character hits around the realm of close to 20, but not yet, I typically slow down on the grind fest and dip in deep to the RP, where my real love for things stems from. It's just no fun to have your build bullied by better builds, or higher level PCs. This doesn't create a dynamic, it just creates frustration. The argument here is, 'Would it increase the fun to have 100% RCR for a time, if not always.' The fact that there has been several people saying 'yes' tells us that for some, yes, it will increase what they perceive to be fun. It won't burn the server to the ground not to be RPing killing lizardmen for the fiftieth time. Simple as that. Our DM team is clever. I've seen them draw in higher level PCs to areas, and present them with new challenges. Their level simply means the DCs of things presented need to be adjusted, the mobs need to be of a higher ECL. It has very little to do with what their individual character's frowth as a person, aside from their build. Personal growth can still carry on well into the level 20+ spectrum.

My two cents on it, and likely all I'm going to say, as I don't typically participate in forum discussions. Changing the view of what a person holds as 'fun' is trying to take a computer geek, and telling them watching football is way more fun. Trust me, my family tries to do this to me -all the time-.

Syracuse wrote:I'd also like to note, that your experience bar has absolutely nothing to do with 'personal growth'.

+1

Steve wrote:But what is funny is: Narshe already said the 100% ain't gonna stay!

Minds can be changed...

But surely the real argument against 100% RCR is simply that today you play a level 30 FS; tomorrow a level 30 Wizard, the next day a level 30 Druid - but hold on, they're all the same character, just RCR'd.

Does anyone really think it's a good idea that could happen?

Now if a flag could be set so you get 1 RCR per character only, then it would work, but AFAIK that's not possible.

Steve wrote: It's actually "I AM LEVEL 30, SO I NEVER DIE."

Except for when the Player "tires" of the Character, and willingly ends their life. And if they do, fine.

But that they or anyone else gets to immediately have a new PC at lvl 30 again...

I think that's a strawman. Someone who wants character too "never die", will never die, RCR or not. Death does not delevel you, so you can "never die" at any level.

If you don't like that, get them permastriked.

Also, someone who has level 30 char will know what the server is about, and how to act there.

So, ultimately that wouldn't make things worse, buit add new posisbilities instead. New "not stale" characters, etc.

Thorsson wrote: Now if a flag could be set so you get 1 RCR per character only, then it would work, but AFAIK that's not possible.

That actually can be done, because some data like last location persists across rcr. If you kill character and create new one with the same name, it'll spawn in the same location as the last character (i.e. in front of rcr npc). You can probably add rcr counter there, but it can still be bypassed.

But surely the real argument against 100% RCR is simply that today you play a level 30 FS; tomorrow a level 30 Wizard, the next day a level 30 Druid - but hold on, they're all the same character, just RCR'd.

Yes. This is probably the main argument against 100% RCR.

But even if there was something scripted against it being the same Character or couldn't use the same name, it is still a bad idea to be 100%.

If the Server has the rule Play Your Character Sheet, but then, Players are given the power to rewrite the Sheet on a whim...it creates an insecure and anarchic environment with confusion and uncertainty as the paradigm.

And to mention, an environment that is more about "getting it right" mechanically than about RPing the Character.

@Negs: thought you were done addressing me...do you really want me to respond to another misinterpretation by you?

In my point of view the issue with the current RCR (50% loss), is really the amount of lost time. At some point on this server you're going to lose interest in your character and will start looking towards making a new character concept, and whether you guys agree or not, being high level is usually preferable. I can't point you to any statistics, this is just what I hear from players that I speak with and is also my personal opinion. Once you reach that point where you consider RCR'ing your character, it basically leaves you with three options:

1. RCR your character with the XP loss, and grind your way back. (Literally throw time out the window)
2. Get burnt out with your current character concept. (Eventually ending in option 3)
3. Find something else to do with your time.

I think the best RCR version would be one that lets you RCR with 70-100% XP (account / cdkey bound), which will reset every second month maybe? And your character would only be allowed to be RCR'ed into an entirely new character, no remake of a current character.

Just passing by to say that keeping 100% RCR will encourage new/casual players to stay, I think.

Please leave it in!

I would welcome the 100% RCR as well. This game, in my opinion, has nearly run its course as far as attracting any new blood. Those of us that remain will do one of two things when we start a new character:

1) Grind like crazy to get to the level you want it to be. This adds very little if nothing, and may subtract from, the server. It is going to happen either way, as some folks just don't like to have an early-build PC.

2) Start from square one and slowly work our way up. We like the journey.

Keeping RCR at 100% doesn't change either one of those, does it? To me, it also allows for less combat viable builds to be played or tried for the sake of RP.

Either way, I am thankful for it. Even if it is removed, I would beg that it is not removed until we have full confirmation/documentation of the update. Without knowing what feats are out there, how they are supposed to work, etc. It is hard to rebuild a high level character. I'd like to know what it is and how it works for all of the new feats/spells/skills.

Hmm Only RCR if your 30....*winks*

Thorsson wrote:But surely the real argument against 100% RCR is simply that today you play a level 30 FS; tomorrow a level 30 Wizard, the next day a level 30 Druid - but hold on, they're all the same character, just RCR'd.

Does anyone really think it's a good idea that could happen?

Now if a flag could be set so you get 1 RCR per character only, then it would work, but AFAIK that's not possible.

I really can't find anything valuable in that point. No offense but, the logic is fairly flawed. Would it be any less strange if some character whom is likely established in the community turned from a level 30 wizard, into a level 20 Fighter, anymore than if he were to become a level 30 one? The only difference with the older RCR system is number appended to the class, not any means of preventing the class change save for a difference in whether or not they're 'Epic' by the end of it.

And likewise, there's also the fact that a well established PC could slowly change those classes out. Suppose the same Wizard at level 30 just ups and decides to do a gish build for RP reasons. He can slowly change some of those classes (obeying the 3 class levels demands of the server, of course) to alter his character in a far more reasonable fashion, or simply swapping out some feats. It could promote -more- RP, as he roleplays with a established fighter learning things such as how to hold his blade properly, how to power attack, and so forth. Building his body and stamina.

However. I do see a point where this could become unruly, and just flat out silly. And I do think that limitations do need to be present in a manner, such as a monthly allotment of 100% RCR, or something less server straining such as swapping out the code between this current RCR NPC from the 100%, to the 50% one we usually have, and back and forth during certain pre-established periods.

Well, okay, -now I'm done- commenting in the thread. Don't know what possessed me to do it twice.

Steve wrote:

But surely the real argument against 100% RCR is simply that today you play a level 30 FS; tomorrow a level 30 Wizard, the next day a level 30 Druid - but hold on, they're all the same character, just RCR'd.

Yes. This is probably the main argument against 100% RCR.

And what an incredibly poor argument it is. I mean, there are probably like 2 players on the server total that have done this without the 100%. It's extremely unlikely to become rampant, and even if it was (!) it's the crassest form of RP elitism to punish every single player because of the dislike of ~2 characters that the same RP elitists harbour.

Mind your own characters. 100% RCR support

Well Karond, if we're going to talk this way, as you've initiated:

I'm proud to be an RP elitist if it contrasts me with how you role-play. And how you value RPing a Character Sheet.

I think keeping 100% rcr is a good idea.

If you are new on this server it is very easy to mess up your build.
Jegs module works half and with the modifications made here nwn2 builder isn't accurate.
You might put points into skill that will proof to be useless or make a build that simply is useless + 20.
It's not very encouraging that you have to regrind.
Especially if you played a non powerbuild or picked a class that doesn't work well here.
Besides mistakes are human, let's not punish them with a huge exp cut on a medium RP server.


People that want to be a druid one and wizard other day are fine imo, the server is also for them.
They would do this anyway with the exp cut.
I don't think this should be the reason to stop the RCR.

Well....

1. Narshe said it isn't going to stay permanent. But, if we're whistling dixie, then:

2. As a long time player, I've managed to acquire and store enough epic gear to fully power any class: cleric/druid, fighter (melee), wizard/sorcerer, FS, rogue/HiPS, etc. I maybe do not have a lvl 30 toon atm because I've used the RCR too much in the last years ( ) , however, if it was my wish, I could probably get one toon to lvl 30 in about 2 months.

So now I have a lvl 30, the 100% RCR at my disposal, and a ton of epic gear for any build possible on BGTSCC. Given that I'm "allowed" to freely RCR and create any type of PC at lvl 30—and at the "wished for" 100% rate—I could create this weekly schedule:

Monday: RCR to an Illmater priest, and go around epic-ly healing those in need.
Tuesday: RCR to a Banite Cleric and go around epic-ly forcing submission throughout the land.
Wednesday: RCR to a HiPS assassin Ability munchkin and spy upon all the RP I can find.
Thursday: RCR to FS of Hoar and enact my own form of justice upon any PCs I find.
Friday: RCR to an EDM Bard and hit all the Bosses scoring epic loot...might even sing an epic tune in town, just for the ladies.
Saturday: RCR to Dragon Druid of Malar and go for the throat of any PCs "attacking" nature.
Sunday: See that my Red Wizard Shadow Adept Harper Barbarian application was approved, and now, plan out my following week of "role-play."

Why are we NOT promoting long term Character development that begins at low Level and "grows" during it's Life on the Sword Coast? Why are we promoting holding on to / transferring over MAXIMUM POWER ATTAINMENT to whatever "storyline" the Player wants?

The argument seems to be that RL time to get to level 30 is the most value, so let's do everything we can so no Player loses any more "wasted" time leveling. If that is your argument, then why not just give or start at Level 30 for everyone?

Or is the majority of thought that 1x leveling to 30 is the "penalty," but after doing it once, you gain the "reward?"

Either way, in my perception of the discussion, it seems very few find no or much value in RPing your Character from Level 1 through Level 30...am I wrong?

Well for the info..Back in the day I leveled Sette 6 times from lvl 1 to 30 and Bobetta 4...I learned a lot....but times are different now.....rules-spells-classes-bugs.. its knot wise to do it now...with all the changes.. keep 100% RCR...