18+ Server

[DM Echo]

This is the crux of it for me. Having 18+ excludes a lot of people based on content that, if the server was 18+, they could not avoid. But PG-13 lets a lot happen "off camera" or by insinuation.

Does it really exclude people though? I mean, if we are all being honest with ourselves we can all admit ERP and torture type stuff happens. Is it a big deal now? Why does decriminalizing that type of RP make everyone think there are suddenly going to be massive orgies in the courtyard of the FAI? It will remain largely private and between consenting players because for one, intimacy is private by nature, and two, public torture is a good way to blow your secret bad guy cover...

The things people are arguing against happen already, and in the years I have been here I have not once "accidently" seen it. But for the sake of keeping the server open to all, what if we kept the rating as PG-13 and simply stop punishing people for behavior that is between two consenting players (and possibly still excluding ERP, I honestly don't care about ERP one way or the other...). So basically, PG-13 with allowances made for adult themes if all involved parties give consent, or is the PG-13 crowd not willing to make any concessions?

If something is happening between two consenting adults in tells or in skype or some other exterior service, how do you suppose the DMs find out about it to punish it? We can't see your private whispers and we don't have access to your Skype conversations. We can't really police anything that happens in private between two consenting adults.. No one else can find out about it to take offence.. So what then?

[chad878262]

Tend not to vote in polls in the general forum and this is no exception. Multiple forum accounts makes polls largely useless except for specific groups where you only can have one login and thus only one vote. That said, if we were voting my vote would be 'no'. As a parent there is just too much that can go wrong when you open the flood gates and I have never once been in a position where a higher age limit would have made the RP more fluid, more fun or easier to accomplish (including my Bard being taken to the Underdark as a prisoner!) To me the question boils down to gain vs. loss and I feel you lose too much compared to any potential gains by going 18+. One of the many things I like about BG is no one has ever tried (through tells or otherwise) to engage me in ERP. That sort of thing, for a married individual could be viewed as cheating (and regardless what my thoughts on the matter were, I know what my wifes thoughts would be if she happened to see such a thing in my game logs! So define as you will, but that's my view). Point being, if ERP is allowed, or even if it isn't allowed, but the age limit is raised, it does become more a concern, because even if I IC or OOC make it clear I am not interested, just dealing with the conversation is uncomfortable.

Same thing with gratuitous violence, and other 'mature' themes. To me there is nothing lost by keeping some of this stuff 'off screen' and little to be gained by allowing more of it. Meanwhile, for those that find these matters either offensive or simply gross or otherwise we may lose those folks, regardless if they meet the 18+ criteria. Once I realized what ERP was (yes, having not played PW's before BG I never ran in to it) I made sure never to even try other servers that allow it because it seems to become the primary focus. Likewise, for other subjects that some find distasteful, should they become allowed and regular it is probable that folks will find other places to spend their time.

*shrug* I can understand the desire from some to have more mature themes, but as I believe Steve said earlier in the thread it's not like the rules don't already allow for some pretty heavy RP themes, just be cognizant of the line where one is crossing in to an area that others may find distasteful. To me it really goes back to similar statements in threads on PvP...always try to ensure you keep the enjoyment of others in mind during RP.

[Maximvs]

This pool should be redone, with a PG 16 option and a Surface PG 13, Underdark PG 18 option

[mrm3ntalist]

This pool should be redone, with a PG 16 option and a Surface PG 13, Underdark PG 18 option

We dont like the rules and we ask the dms for rulings... Then we dont like the rulings and go to the forums complaining... When we get tired of compaining we ask for polls. When polls dont go the way we like them we ask for new polls...

This thread has gone from confusing mature people with the server's maturity level, we heard talks about silent minorities/majorities , democratic issues etc

Is it common for people to go to a restaurant and order something that is not on the menu?

This is what is being served on BG. If you like it, eat it, else find another restaurant

[chad878262]

Is it common for people to go to a restaurant and order something that is not on the menu?

This is what is being served on BG. If you like it, eat it, else find another restaurant

[freekender]

Immediate convenience on split opinions doesn't warrant a change of position.

This is my personal view. As TarnishedSoul reminded:

I'll save everyone some time, because this topic was discussed two months ago: http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?f=136&t=51756
And one of the last posts sums it up quite well:

My honest thoughts?
My honest thought on this is that the subject has been revisited time and again, over and over for seven years. Every time it comes up dozens of good points are made with pros and cons to either side. And no matter what's said, and what thoughts we may possess for or against, the staff has made it clear time and again that this rule will not be changed. Therefore, sadly, my honest thought is, my thoughts don't matter. It is what it is. I/we need to accept that this is how the powers that be want it, and to remain in their sandbox, we must accept this..

Oups, I was half-slept when I read the post. I don't agree with the final part of the quote, so I edited my previous post. My apologies.

[V'rass]

Think the problem is legal issues. Especially with the server being based off US. You know those pesky Americans love to sue everyone and everything under the sun.

America cannot sue anyone over content as american law makes clear that there is freedom of speech, freedom of expression, and no material no matter how offensive or stupid can be banned. The new so-called content laws were put in by the neo-fascists and have no basis or legitimacy against the constitution. Any laws the fascists make are void and unenforceable legally. Its time for us Americans say F you to the tyrannical idiots running our country and return the rule of law to what it was before radical elements corrupted it. There is no legal basis to ban 18+ content... and any idiot lawyer or judge who says otherwise is corrupt!

Btw i speak in terms of RL gov., the server has the right to not include such if it wishes.

[Kauaiian]

This pool should be redone, with a PG 16 option and a Surface PG 13, Underdark PG 18 option

We dont like the rules and we ask the dms for rulings... Then we dont like the rulings and go to the forums complaining... When we get tired of compaining we ask for polls. When polls dont go the way we like them we ask for new polls...

This thread has gone from confusing mature people with the server's maturity level, we heard talks about silent minorities/majorities , democratic issues etc

Is it common for people to go to a restaurant and order something that is not on the menu?

This is what is being served on BG. If you like it, eat it, else find another restaurant

So well put

[Xanfyrst]

This is what is being served on BG. If you like it, eat it, else find another restaurant

So we can't complain if the food is bad? What about other restaurants having better food? Aren't you obligated to adapt to change? Surely better than facing closing the shop, right?

I do get your point though, but things aren't black and white.

[mrm3ntalist]

This is what is being served on BG. If you like it, eat it, else find another restaurant

So we can't complain if the food is bad? What about other restaurants having better food? Aren't you obligated to adapt to change? Surely better than facing closing the shop, right?

I do get your point though, but things aren't black and white.

Of course you can complain. To ask for changes as well. Up to the administrator to listen to you and/or change things. However, this thing that has been going on with asking for rulings for every little thing, much critisism to the dms, poll after poll is getting out of hand.

You have been around for a long time. How many times did you have to read about the server rating? I am certain this discussion has been made at least 2 times in 2016. How many times it takes for complaining to turn into bitching?

[Maximvs]

I just pointed out that this thread's pool could've been worded better. Am I being targeted because of my form picture? You don't like green people?

[Akroma666]

The poll pretty much speaks for itself.. The thread has just gotten toxic and at this point were beating a dead horse. For these reasons, I'm going to lock this. If anyone wants this reopened, just pm the mod team.

[Maecius]

The server will not at this time be turning into an Adult-rated server. I would have only earnestly considered it if the option had found the overwhelming support of the community. That being said, the majority continue to like that we are an open server where everyone is welcome.

I would briefly encourage all interested parties to re-review the content rules, however, as there is a lot of confusion in this thread about what is and is not allowed. The rules describe, fairly clearly, what is and is not allowed. The exception is the vague reference to "gratuitous violence" (which I will likely clarify with the DM team as I continue to update the forums and correct outdated content in the weeks and months to come):

– Content = Teen
– The Server, Forum and all interactions are to be rated Teen. Sexual encounters, graphic or extended nudity, gratuitous violence and torture, ERP (Erotic Role Play), and especially rape are strictly prohibited. Pregnancies are forbidden unless directly supervised by a DM, resulting from DM-authorized Role-play. Miscarriages are strictly prohibited. Pregnancies are a form of "retiring" a PC for the duration, and resulting children are NOT to be Role-played. Any caught violating this rule are subject to being permanently banned. All Player Characters (PCs) must be created and Role-played with the minimum age of 18, for Human, and the equivalent for all other races.

I'm leaving this thread locked. And asking that it not be unlocked.