Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Sure thing, will do. I'll probably make a unique post going into more detail and seeing what kind of interest we could gather and hammer out things and share ideas. DM's I want you to bless the future fires!

Valefort wrote:Are you sure there is no perception bias when you feel that "team good" is more numerous than evil characters ? When I used to play I thought 80% of the usual characters were evil aligned.

Also I've been out of the loop for a long time but what kind of environment changing events did happen recently that were done by good-aligned characters ?

The cleansing of Triel (this one seems to have been kept fairly secretive [and when I saw it, the main components were members of a particular clique], so, it makes me suspect that these kinds of things are being performed often. Then again, there has been a moderate staff change since then so who knows! That is one recent example of what I would call a world changing event (something that literally changed the game world). The orphans perhaps to a lesser extent, though, that really had little impact on the game world.

I think during HDM Void's reign, a fair bit of the bias was not present [Here, you are all equally worthless!]. At least from a player standpoint, there seemed to be both active evil and active good (and even active neutral, such as Candlekeep during Wendel's reign as guide) guilds all in relatively equal measure. I don't think I played before that time, though, it was a while ago so I might have.

I think a big part of the issue (it is prevalent among good characters too) is guild activity. When guild leaders become too inactive, vanish, etc then its really bad for the guild (See: Radiant Heart, Candlekeep, etc). Also, when guilds stop doing regular activity then players generally only show up for events. Guild Leaders need to take a bit of responsibility that naturally comes with the role (and show up for work on a regular basis, or have a reliable chain of command so the next person can do it for them). But, not only them too. Guild members need to actively contribute to the guild and do things surrounding that guild's RP. You can't just rely on someone else to start the RP and leech on whatever they started. People need to start things on their own. That keeps a guild, an idea, alive. Activity. Too many people seem to sit around, waiting for things to fall into their lap, instead of having the courage and imagination to make something happen.

Be a doer, not a follower! That will make evil RP, good RP, any RP become alive and active. That is what is most important. When a group is doing things regularly, it will encourage not only more members of the group to do things with you, but it will also encourage other people to join your group.

If you aren't one, become one. Experiment with things, make alt characters and try out doing different activities with the player base if you don't want to compromise your main character with rabid experimentation. Try doing things without DMs, then if it goes somewhere, get a DM hooked in (if you want to). When the DM finishes, start something new and if it goes somewhere, get a DM hooked in again. Do it again, and again. And if something doesn't go anywhere, end it gracefully and try something new.

Even something as simple as a grinding journey or a boss run can be turned into RP. Instead of gathering up random people, get your guild members involved and make it into a guild event. Sure, its killing the same old boss/mob. But if you have a bit of imagination and insert in the right RP, it can be made into a new adventure. Hold a tournament, or an auction in game (as opposed to on the fourms). Escort a mock caravan somewhere dangerous (you don't need a DM for this! Half the time, the DMs disable the caravan since the models tend to be a little buggy. Heck, you can RP escorting other players instead of a caravan.). DO something, don't wait for something to fall into your lap.

And remember too, you don't have to put all your eggs in one basket. That has happened to me before, where I made my character for one particular group or guild. While this is good with more throw-away characters, groups and guilds DO become inactive from time to time. In which case, have a back-up plan. Have something else your character can do, or have an alt or two. Something!

Steve wrote:Dialectic started on something with his somewhat recent High Captains of Roaringshore RP for the Evil-minded. But has anyone heard from Dialectic in weeks!?!

Just an FYI on the High Captains of Roaringshore conduit initiative for evil RP that we had initiated, then we had to stop due to lack of time OOC for me to run it. As I lack time OOC to run this anymore, I have been working on having a new DM take this over, which until this happens, DM involvement with the Roaringshore conduit is unfortunately stalled IC/OOC -- I sent a PM on this to the PM group of PCs involved a while ago on this. What I would recommend is if players involved (or that would want to be) are enthused about the idea, please PM the DM Team your interest as it would help to get this initiative moving again with a new DM if we see a lot of player enthusiasm behind the concept as then it would be easier to optimally get a DM available to run with it that is otherwise busy with other things! Also, I did mention in the PM to the group of PCs involved on my involvement being over that the initiative still could very well be a conduit for non-DM involved RP between just PCs without DMs. I still recommend all to do so without DM involvement if this interests players!

I encourage all to civilly continue to put forth ideas on the topic of evil RP on our server that the DM Team and our wonderful community at large, players and staff alike, can review and take into consideration. As said above, if the Roaringshore evil RP conduit with DM support is something that players would still find interesting, please let the DM Team know!

Why? We already had a thread. Here http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?p=659376#p659376, the enchanted version of my thoughts compared to the disillusioned one that I posted in this thread.

Not a single step has been made in the right direction.

Thids wrote:Why? We already had a thread. Here http://bgtscc.net/viewtopic.php?p=659376#p659376, the enchanted version of my thoughts compared to the disillusioned one that I posted in this thread.

Not a single step has been made in the right direction.

Thids: I realize we already had some back and forth on your points in the previous thread, but I am not looking to re-hash this, but instead more crystallize what your (or others' here) recommendations are now/then in brief bullet points so that we perhaps can figure out a way forward that leaves upset folks more happy with the evil RP experience here.

As far as the DM Team would possibly be able to help, are your personal recommendations (and that of some others on the topic from the previous thread and this one) for aiding evil RP on the server still mainly that the DM team try:

1. More publicly accessible openly evil NPC lead surface race churches on the server. If so, do you have in mind specific churches that would make sense lore wise?
2. Helping to facilitate a surface public evil scene. Did you like the concept of the Roaringshore conduit? I know you and I had a back and forth on Amn as an option for an evil conduit. If you don't like either of these options, what do you recommend?

These questions are open to any others in this thread to answer constructively as well please!

Young Werther wrote:Imo Ssasamath the UD city *could* be a hub of evil RP if it was an open trade route between the surface and there. (Suggestion)

I think allowing Ssamath more influence on the surface could be huge. If a surfacer could go down there without running the crazy NPC gauntlet each time, learn necromancy and other dark arts IC, many, many evil characters would have a chance to interact together and plot. It's also lore appropriate my suggestion

I anyone is looking for ideas for evil characters I have two that a part of a group of brothers. They each represent one of the Dead Three *Bane, Bhaal, Myrkul* and worship all three as a pantheon. We could unite the three factions of these gods think of what evil could accomplish then. Whahahaahaha AHAHAHA-*COugh Cough*

But seriously, the reason evil has a hard time prevailing is the lack of a centralized unity. Which is normal for evil but what would happen if we united with all our dark gods turned into a Dark Pantheon to usurp the pantheon of goody two shoes players worship

Young Werther wrote:

Young Werther wrote:Imo Ssasamath the UD city *could* be a hub of evil RP if it was an open trade route between the surface and there. (Suggestion)

I think allowing Ssamath more influence on the surface could be huge. If a surfacer could go down there without running the crazy NPC gauntlet each time, learn necromancy and other dark arts IC, many, many evil characters would have a chance to interact together and plot. It's also lore appropriate my suggestion

I have to agree with this. Making the underdark more accessible would allow not only thematic and rich new role play for evil toons. But it would also offer those toon a natural evil hub in the server without the need for the QC team to waste a bunch of resources and time to make a brand new grand spanking new city. But i would suggest if you do this to regulate it accordingly though.

So my original inquiry was :
1)I am looking for ways us evil players can become better organized- I know we don’t work well with others but....
2)What kind of evil deeds can we can do as individual players, as factions, or as Legion of Doom?

There has been a lot of focus on LoD - PM if interested in forming an LoD (we will have a better name, I swear). Something seems to be forming.

Things I have personally gotten out of the thread so far –
-Dont focus on pvp.
-Plan it carefully.
-Plan OOC.
-Evil comes in all kinds of shapes and sizes- not just black, there is lots of grey.
-Low evil population makes it hard to get a particular faction to shine.
-There has been attempts for team evil to organize in the past – with some success and lots of failure.
-Argument that evil players can't get along-and therefore cant organize.
-Argument that the dm's are not giving enough love to evil, neglecting them.
-Argument that the players tent to RP in an oversimplified, black and white way.
-Argument that evil players are repressed by an overall 'goodness' of the server.
-The idea of establishing a more present and detailed political (religious?) system.
-Argument that players tend not to handle conflict on the server well. (see dont focus on pvp)
-Good guys have The Dukes of BG to unite them – Evil guys do not. ( see evil political system)
-Idea that, maybe all evil players should pull up and move to the UD.
-Conflict RP is important – its hard coded into D&D.
-Argument that regarding lore - more Evil content is needed (ie more evil churches/temples) in BGTSCC
-The DM's are few, don't want any BS, and are here for fun too, not just to work.
-Idea to have a list of volunteers willing to play a roll in evil PC's plots.
-Argument for more ability to affect/change the environment more often.
-Argument that Evil's lack of freedom makes things boring for all players.
-We need to be willing to lose. Check you ego!
-Attention to detail, and a long-term investment = success
-Viscous cycle theory re: evil– low evil faction player numbers, causes disorganized unruly evil players, which causes DM's to ignore and neglect said players, which causes low evil player numbers... etc. etc.
-Idea to start the mob- organized crime – thieves guild, what have you..
-Reports from Good and neutral players stating they got it rough too.
-Idea: Orc war band...Legion of Orcs....instead of Doom.
-Responsibility -Its a lot of pressure on faction leaders. So be willing to take the reigns as a player.
- You have to cooperate, to make it fun for each player involved.
-All RP requires mutual trust and respect. As well as communication
- DM plans of an “evil Conduit” - but not sure exactly what that is?
- Allowing Sshamath more influence. ((my biggest wish))

If anyone is still interested in a legion of doom, PM me please. Forming... well, more of a secret conspiracy organization than a legion, but still. Forming an evil faction with lofty end goals. Already have two members, plus one who realized we were sorta kinda evil and quit.
Edit: We also have a guild Discord chat. Our other member isn't joining it ATM though so it's just me. It's lonely.

Haven't seen this thread in awhile...look at all that wisdom packed into point form just two posts up. Noooice!
I think some of those points even have been addressed to one degree or another.

I'm always interested in any collective communal evil conspiracy type thing so count me in.

The last time this was attempted the leadership imploded and then it just fell apart. So this time I recommend a solid group of regular players act as leaders. Maybe even get half a dozen taking on leadership roles. So that there is organization going on regularly.

Evil groups aren't so much about the Toons, instead, much more about the Players (that choose to group together).

I don't know what it is, though I can speculate that, the type of Player that chooses to play a truly evil Character brings a need to have a wicked outlet. And that need also contains a kind of RL roughness and self-justified attitude, which more or less brings a high energy and difficult energy, to the group.

Call it salty, call it difficult, call it mean...whatever, it is often challenging behavior that is applied to the group, mostly in OOC ways, and that causes implosion.

I mean, you gotta question on a psychological level if "playing Evil for fun" is really F.U.N.??? I've been in so many groups that sit around a table showing off how "evil" they can be in chat and threat...but what is that about, really? Fantasy being Evil? Really wanting to express Evil in your words, but in RL, that would be rather looked down upon?

Do we play Evil in order to make others suffer? Or do we play Evil to provide a challenge to the Good Forces? But then, do the Good Forces—good playing Players of good PCs—even want that? Because really, in the end, what Evil Characters wish to see is the Death of the Good (Characters/groups/Gods/etc). And I'm pretty sure very few Players are here on BGTSCC to subject their PCs to another Players PC's desire to kill them, and moreseo, have their PC actually die.

Well...one can dream, I guess. But like I say, this type of role-play would have to start off from the beginning, and be developed in tandem—both players on both sides of the fence establishing the pro/antagonist RP from the get go, and both agreeing to the level of interaction and result, such role-play will achieve.

It also helps if both sides are actually "friends." By this, I mean a certain trust that between the two groups, the outcome is done for the shared experience, and not so that one person can be the boot, and the other the face.

While I'm not saying Evil PCs and such are not possible, nor cannot be played with respect and skill, by my account, it is better if DMs create a World of Evil, from which ALL OTHER PCs can react against. This too includes other Evil PCs, mind you (and probably also why so many evil groups fall apart, because Evil infighting is the great killer of collective effort! lol).

Evil is mostly the antagonist in the story. The majority of players on BG are here to participate in a story, and from their perspective, their PC is the protagonist. DMs have more power, literally, to provide the background and the mechanical force to support our little protagonists.

It is possible to flip the script, but...the Sword Coast really isn't that way, is it?

Steve wrote:I don't know what it is, though I can speculate that, the type of Player that chooses to play a truly evil Character brings a need to have a wicked outlet. And that need also contains a kind of RL roughness and self-justified attitude, which more or less brings a high energy and difficult energy, to the group.

I enjoy playing both good and evil characters, and take offense at this statement.

I'm open to evil groups. It's a shame if their purpose is solely just to pvp, but that goes for good and evil factions. Bring it on, evil-doers! I'm not afraid to die in PVP.

Babuguuscooties wrote:I'm open to evil groups. It's a shame if their purpose is solely just to pvp, but that goes for good and evil factions. Bring it on, evil-doers! I'm not afraid to die in PVP.

In my experience, outsmarted "good" toons start most of PvPs. Evil toons provide more quality RP (in general).

Playing evil character is much more difficult than playing some mainstream good one (like paladin of Tyr or wizard of Candlekeep). Many players (I hope not majority but doubt it) tend to treat everything personal. Playing evil toon I always have issues with finding a party, I am making more foes than friends, some "good" toons are just looking for any reasons to kill me for my words (I tried several evil toons, and every time it is all the same).

P.S. A note to eveyone hating my PCs: When I am insulting your toon (roleplaying an evil quick-tempered sorc with low wisdom and high charisma), I am insulting your toon, not YOU personally. Thanks for attention.

Tekill wrote:I'm always interested in any collective communal evil conspiracy type thing so count me in.

Count me too.