3 by 20

[Calodan]

Any RP of defining investment should be supported on BGTSCC. Don't you realize the Rules are there because the majority abuse the environment, and when that disturbs others, it has to be shut down?

These kinds of statements are usually made by dictators. Which is actually quite wrong.

TRUTH IS THE MAJORITY OBEY THE RULES. IT IS ALWAYS A SMALL MINORITY THAT BREAK THEM TIME AND AGAIN AND PEOPLE WHO WANT TO CONTROL THINGS USE THIS AS THE EXCUSE TO OPPRESS THE REST!

Sorry Steve but you seem to think the <10% of rule breakers constitute a whole population and it is simply not true.

[Steve]

Find your way to the HDM spot, Calodan, and then come talk to me.

[Mallore]

FYI: it has always been that if your Character had RP reason to take 3 levels AFTER 20, a Player could petition to the DM Staff and be granted an exception.

Has it? I've been here for a few years, and I had no idea about this. I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere.

I would be glad to know if this is true or not.

I know I be a lot happier.

[Mallore]

In some respects there is no difference between a 3x30 rule and allowing 100 percent rcr. RCR is allowing players who reach 30 to go back and reedit classes regardless if they had those classes in the first place or even before level 20. They are optomisizing and changing levels anyways. 3 x20 only tells players wait till your thirty you can change things around with an RCR. Gain those levels you wanted or felt you should have.



Personally I loath level 1 dips.

I feel you should take a minimum of 3 in a core class. A minimum of 5 in prestige class. A minimum of 10 in that class to be recognized as it by NPcs if not they just don't care.

[RagingPeace]

Any RP of defining investment should be supported on BGTSCC. Don't you realize the Rules are there because the majority abuse the environment, and when that disturbs others, it has to be shut down?

These kinds of statements are usually made by dictators. Which is actually quite wrong.

TRUTH IS THE MAJORITY OBEY THE RULES. IT IS ALWAYS A SMALL MINORITY THAT BREAK THEM TIME AND AGAIN AND PEOPLE WHO WANT TO CONTROL THINGS USE THIS AS THE EXCUSE TO OPPRESS THE REST!

Sorry Steve but you seem to think the <10% of rule breakers constitute a whole population and it is simply not true.

If the majority of us are attempting to work around a rule (I don't know if we are), then perhaps there is a problem with said rule?

I personally think the only problem with the 3 by 20 rule is that you can't develop your character in a new direction after reaching level 20, which is also why I wonder about what Steve stated about DM approval to take a new class after level 20.

[Boddynock]

FYI: it has always been that if your Character had RP reason to take 3 levels AFTER 20, a Player could petition to the DM Staff and be granted an exception.

Has it? I've been here for a few years, and I had no idea about this. I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere.

I was granted exception to take 20 paladin followed by 10 levels of divine champion, which meant I wouldn't switch to my second class until epics. Albeit this was a while back, with a completely different staff. But still, I asked, and was granted permission, really was that simple.

[RagingPeace]

FYI: it has always been that if your Character had RP reason to take 3 levels AFTER 20, a Player could petition to the DM Staff and be granted an exception.

Has it? I've been here for a few years, and I had no idea about this. I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere.

I was granted exception to take 20 paladin followed by 10 levels of divine champion, which meant I wouldn't switch to my second class until epics. Albeit this was a while back, with a completely different staff. But still, I asked, and was granted permission, really was that simple.

I see. Perhaps it would be worth considering to add this in the rule section, to let players know that it is possible, with permission, to take other classes after level 20.

[Calodan]

Find your way to the HDM spot, Calodan, and then come talk to me.

The system here is rigged. You and I both know I will never sniff DMing.

[chad878262]

I see. Perhaps it would be worth considering to add this in the rule section, to let players know that it is possible, with permission, to take other classes after level 20.

It should be noted that if you have any path that is against the rules it doesn't hurt to ask the HDM's / Admin to consider what you are trying to do. So long as you don't expect an immediate answer for your plan of what you want to do they are quite willing to get back to you once adequate discussion is held as to potential negative impacts. Generally though if your RP idea includes something that is going to increase the power of your character (especially if it is already a power build) I would assume they would not be keen on the idea. I have sent requests to HDM's in the past and, while in my case the requests were declined, they were kind enough to give a good reasoning behind it. I would say that if a player is sending in requests every week they may get pretty annoyed, but if you truly have an RP idea that won't cause balance issues or RP inconsistencies with our server lore then go ahead and give it a shot. Worse they can say is "no", and then you just think up some other cool idea to try and bring your RP idea through within the rules.

[RagingPeace]

I see. Perhaps it would be worth considering to add this in the rule section, to let players know that it is possible, with permission, to take other classes after level 20.

It should be noted that if you have any path that is against the rules it doesn't hurt to ask the HDM's / Admin to consider what you are trying to do. So long as you don't expect an immediate answer for your plan of what you want to do they are quite willing to get back to you once adequate discussion is held as to potential negative impacts. Generally though if your RP idea includes something that is going to increase the power of your character (especially if it is already a power build) I would assume they would not be keen on the idea. I have sent requests to HDM's in the past and, while in my case the requests were declined, they were kind enough to give a good reasoning behind it. I would say that if a player is sending in requests every week they may get pretty annoyed, but if you truly have an RP idea that won't cause balance issues or RP inconsistencies with our server lore then go ahead and give it a shot. Worse they can say is "no", and then you just think up some other cool idea to try and bring your RP idea through within the rules.

I totally understand. I have just always thought the 3 by 20 was final, and as such I have never given it any thought that one could request such, and I don't think I'm alone on this. I guess I just don't understand why it isn't mentioned in the rule section, so that you don't have to accidentally hear it from other players. Honestly, I'm just scared of wasting the staff's time, which is why everything I do, I run through the rules thread, and if I'm in the wrong, then I don't do it, which has repeatedly resulted in RCR'ing with 50%, which is why I'm kinda mehish that I didn't know / hadn't given this any thought.

[chad878262]

Definitely understand your predicament RP... However, DM's and Admins have posted several times that they are there specifically for this reason. There is even a stickied thread about the proper manner to go about submitting player requests. It's not bothering them, they volunteered because they want to enhance the players (including you!) experience. As I said, so long as you are not rude or demanding I don't think there is any reason you can't submit a request. I would just recommend it be very well thought out and explain specifically why any given rule detracts from your RP idea. This way, if they can think of some way to allow you to RP within the rules they can provide that feedback in addition to reviewing the request itself.

However, maybe it's not posted specifically that you can request to break the rule because they don't want too many players submitting the request! Not on DM/Admin team so not sure!

[RagingPeace]

Definitely understand your predicament RP... However, DM's and Admins have posted several times that they are there specifically for this reason. There is even a stickied thread about the proper manner to go about submitting player requests. It's not bothering them, they volunteered because they want to enhance the players (including you!) experience. As I said, so long as you are not rude or demanding I don't think there is any reason you can't submit a request. I would just recommend it be very well thought out and explain specifically why any given rule detracts from your RP idea. This way, if they can think of some way to allow you to RP within the rules they can provide that feedback in addition to reviewing the request itself.

However, maybe it's not posted specifically that you can request to break the rule because they don't want too many players submitting the request! Not on DM/Admin team so not sure!

Maybe players wouldn't be so sad about the 100% RCR going away, if they knew they could make those kind of requests. Let's not derail the topic with this though!

[Akroma666]

A friendly reminder to stay in topic and not to start mudslinging.. Or this thread is heading for the dungeon!

[Thorsson]

A minimum of 10 in that class to be recognized as it by NPcs if not they just don't care.

Quite difficult in the case of Bodyguard, Tempest, Shadow Thief, Fist of the Forest...

Most prestige classes you won't reach level 10 until quite late; and then there's all the weapon masters, frezerkers and assassins that never reach 10, but see that as their defining class. But oh no, guys, Mallore says otherwise.

[Boddynock]

A minimum of 10 in that class to be recognized as it by NPcs if not they just don't care.

Quite difficult in the case of Bodyguard, Tempest, Shadow Thief, Fist of the Forest...

Most prestige classes you won't reach level 10 until quite late; and then there's all the weapon masters, frezerkers and assassins that never reach 10, but see that as their defining class. But oh no, guys, Mallore says otherwise.

It is also worth noting that class names are, by and large, OOC knowledge. A fighter can be a soldier, a knight, a man-at-arms, or a thug. An assassin can use his training solely as a bounty hunter. You can even make a very good ranger character using wilderness stalker, and not having a single ranger level.