Baldur's Gate : The Sword Coast Chronicles : NWN2 Persistent World

Comments Only wrote:Will you also add weapons with some percentage of casting those 25% dispels or adamantium weapons? Because otherwise, you got those frenzied weapon enthusiasts complaining about 30 DR premonitions

Are you trolling here? How are dispel/breach mechanics even remotely related to DR or adamantium? Because divine doesn't get the DR they shouldn't be subject to any fear of ward removal similar to arcane? Arcane don't get spell resistance or regeneration, have less hp and have to give up a lot if they want the same ability to cast in armor and shield. Your argument is seriously that premonition somehow sets arcane ahead of divine?

Comments Only wrote:

Steve wrote:A Ranger or Paladin can survive a majority of combat situations without their buffs/magic.

So what is a ranger or a paladin to you? Something with a 11 or a 4 level dip?

A level 30 ranger or a paladin without their buffs is basically a fighter without the fighter bonus feats. Perhaps you never played one on this server before the ranger/paladin buffs, because that - 'survive a majority of combat situations' - is a phrase born out of ignorance. And it is born out of ignorance, because anything can 'survive a majority of combat situations' by the virtue of being over leveled against the CR of the area.

Look in the mirror, or better yet, read how your own assumptions and ignorant association define you. Have a nice day!

One thing that keeps coming up is PrC's and forcing certain base classes to take them.

Why? Simply because those PrC's exist? My past gaming in nwn2 has been on many servers where ANY multiclassing was discouraged. All this time on this server, and only in the last month did I finally RCR into multiclassed characters. I simply got sick of everyone assuming everything has a full four classes. Then I nuked my RP builds and power built. If I'm going to be accused constantly of power building, I might as well be power built.

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Back to Divine Power... How do I as a Divine Caster use spells?

1. I prebuff all my long duration USEFUL spells, such as 10 minutes per level spells and Hour per level spells immediately following a rest anywhere but in a pure RP area. I cast Light first, usually, as a warning timer.

2. Before entering hostile areas, such as loot dungeons and grinding zones, I buff the minute level spells. Some of them aren't needed, but I'm paranoid about things going wrong.

3. 10 feet from the first hostile(s) I'll consider casting a Round/Level spell. Particularly bad one, and I may cast two of them. I try and rotate through them based on enemy types.

4. I buff EVERYTHING just before a hard Boss Fight, starting with Round/Level, following with Divine Favor, and just before swinging I use any 4 to 6 round abilities.

5. I don't even consider wasting Spell slots in a combat zone on low return spells, such as Battletide, when I can cast useful spells like Recitation or Prayer. I save level 8 and 9 spells for emergencies. Level one and two slots are for limping to a rest area.

If you cut the effectiveness of Divine Power, I would only EVER use it in a Boss fight. If you cut the duration, it will only ever be used by my characters in a Boss Fight. Right now I use it as a temporary buff in rotation with Recitation, Prayer, Stonebody, and Righteous Might.

I really don't see why this Spell is seen as some huge evil.

Vogar Eol wrote:I really don't see why this Spell is seen as some huge evil.

- It's a 4th level spell (3rd and 4th level with STR domain) so you can cast a lot of them, even a lot of extended spells.

- FvS gets more spell slots than cleric, but even a cleric can keep DP up pretty much constantly between rests.

- It buffs Cleric/FvS with EDM to Fighter levels of AB and APR (FvS also gets 3/day uses of haste for extra juiciness), while also giving +1 AB/Damage over Bulls and some nice temporary HP just in case.

- Because it buffs BAB instead of AB, it makes high BAB divine PRC classes without full caster progression less desirable. While Arcane Gishes have to consider BAB and take classes to get them to AT LEAST 21 BAB, Clerics can take all medium, even low BAB classes and still have 6 APR, pretty much constantly.

All of this said, I wouldn't worry too much. While I would personally want DP just changed to AB instead of BAB I don't see it happening and that's ok. It really isn't a major issue as a well built and well played DC caster is still going to be top of the heap in PvP and in PvE there are other classes that can solo almost everything, just as the big bad evil FvS's can (like STR bards, Dragon Druids, Dwarven Defenders, and two dozen other types). It wouldn't likely bring new players by making a change and would likely cause some players to leave, so it is probably best left as is.

Make it a 7th level Spell then.

chad878262 wrote:Are you trolling here? How are dispel/breach mechanics even remotely related to DR or adamantium? Because divine doesn't get the DR they shouldn't be subject to any fear of ward removal similar to arcane? Arcane don't get spell resistance or regeneration, have less hp and have to give up a lot if they want the same ability to cast in armor and shield. Your argument is seriously that premonition somehow sets arcane ahead of divine?

My previous post was about PvP, since it has been the motivator of some server balance changes in the past. Imagine a fully buffed up armored arcanist with critical hit immunity. It is the combination of spells, equipment and feats for high AC, along with concealment and mirror images for additional melee protection, oh and 30/Adamantium DR from Premonition and critical hit immunity from Stone Body or something.

Currently, our Frenzied Weapon Enthusiast can whip up a wand of breach to tear away some of those protections. Or he could try and hack at the thin air... between him and the arcanist. You know, the arcanist is in a position where he is only going to be hit when the opponent rolls 20 and even then it remains a maybe.

Now, this server is not nearly as PvP friendly as it used to be many, many, many years ago, but it still takes place. Arcane casters are already the top dog today, but that wand of breach is a crutch that might land a victory for our Frenzied Weapon Enthusiast. Thus the removal of breach could be seen, and taken, as another PvP buff in favor of arcanists.

/// Oh and personally, I do not really care either way. I am just pointing out how something might ruffle some feathers.

/// Heck, Steve managed to ruffle my feathers to a quite some extend a moment back. Imagine my slightly hostile reaction, tenfold and going on for weeks.

Ok, your argument makes sense, because greater dispel wands wouldn't help UMD users dispel anything, while breach wands do. Fair point. I thought you were somehow saying the divine wards shouldn't be impacted because arcane is so much better, which is true to a point, but I don't think anyone would argue that divine gish is better than arcane all around.

chad878262 wrote:[...] but I don't think anyone would argue that divine gish is better than arcane all around.

Well, technically bards are arcane gishes by virtue of their class abilities.

But no, not anymore. Although there was a time when it was kind of true. Back when Tenser's Transformation polymorphed your character into a Tenser's Warrior:

You become an engine of destruction, gaining a +1 attack bonus for every 2 caster levels, a +4 natural armor bonus to AC, +5 to Fortitude saving throws, and an additional +1d6 Hit Points per caster level. In addition, your Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution are each set to 20 for the duration of the spell.

And if you used it on some EDM Sorcerer/Eldritch Knight/Blackguard/Arcane Scholar, you could maximise your Charisma without need to invest in other stats. You could easily get anything from +10 to +13 damage and armor from Divine Might and Shield alike. Oh and easily hit the max AB bonus cap of 20 with bab of 21. (Total AB of 46, or 48?) ETc... And then just end the polymorph to throw that quickened bigby six.



But as for changes to Divine Power... Any change will either have no real effect, or break the spell entirely.

Yes why break more when it's not needed clerics and fs are strong pve but very susceptible in pvp . It's not like there tanking the white dragon or killing major things in 3 spells what's the big deal ?

Comments Only wrote:But as for changes to Divine Power... Any change will either have no real effect, or break the spell entirely.

Pretty much this. My pessimism fears the later.

Bassman wrote:I have played here for many years and have seen many changes, Some good and some not so much. What is beyond my comprehension is why people care so much about other peoples builds. I fail to see how one players build hurts anothers RP. This is a fantasy game as we all know. Two key words there, “fantasy” and “game”. As far as making changes to a feat that already requires taking a certain class or has certain requirements to achieve the feat. It creates problem for the players that have gone thru all the requirements to achieve the feat. By appease those that want the changes, it gives no joy to those that have already met the requirements as it originally required. Therefore the Build that they have spent so many months to achieve is now trash. This not only goes for Expose Weakness but for all the attempts to try to scale down effectiveness of classes and /or feats.

This also applies to those that seem to be offended by those that would prefer to grind rather than RP. This too I fail to see how it affects them. When the complaint is , with all of these cases, is that it makes them to powerful. Then I would suggest that, rather than affecting the RP it is more of a PVP argument. As much as people would like to think that this is a RP server only, in reality it is not. This server has many facets, it is why so many like to come here.

In closing, there will always be someone stronger or more powerful, and can do what you cant. Let us remember we are all here for one reason, To Have Fun!

Just my own personal opinion.

+1

//taken from expose weakness post

its mostly routed in pvp, people hate losing, I use to be proponent of nerfs when i was making areas, because you can design a boss for a certain level and a few classes make that bosses a joke, then the boss difficulity is buff up to that level

usually they were fvs builds - bard builds - fvsmonk builds etc

I almost wanted to put a script in that if they were the builds = no loot

that would allow lesser power classes to kill the boss and get decent loot.

but that idea was shot down!! with a burst of bullets

is it fair, no would help stop the numerous build clones out there = yes

that was back before the have nots and haves, thankfully they added the hell store since then

the amount of fvs have drop a ton since back then, before you almost needed to be a fvs dp build to beat bosses because loot was very hard to get.

so you usally had a roll fvs and grind loot, or suck up to a dm to get gear.

so the person who is hiding behind the comment account most likely lost in pvp, unless they are a dev who is mad about the creatures being crushed so easiely.

I am taking bets on pvp

as it stands it don't really matter to much, epic quality gear is attainable by all at this point and with that gear most of the bosses can be solo by many different builds/classes

I think DP is fine as is for a short duration combat buff. Where it starts to go over the top is probably when you have lvl 30 ish characters able to keep it up almost permanently. Though arcanes can do the same with haste... Anyway, if you do decide that it needs to be taken down a bit, please consider a non-linear duration progression. Maybe just a max duration at 20 rounds, or 1/lvl until 20, then 1/2lvls or something. Too often i see balance discussions that only compare lvl 30 builds. Pre-epics the balance between classes is actually much better.

I see a lot of comments comparing Divine Power and Tenser's in a vacuum, while overlooking the rest of the respective spellbooks as well as the way the server is set up (extremely high HP on mobs, among other things).

DP is a very strong spell, but just like for FS, I don't see a reason to nerf it when loads of character archetypes perform more or less as well as melee FSs and Clerics. Perhaps we should focus on what's the problem with it, and with which character types should the "OP" classes be brought in line with. Because Bards, Warlocks, Druids, Spirit Shamans, Wizards, Sorcerers, Monks and DDs, for instance, don't have DP but they still faceroll content.

What's the angle?

Comments Only wrote: My previous post was about PvP, since it has been the motivator of some server balance changes in the past. Imagine a fully buffed up armored arcanist with critical hit immunity. It is the combination of spells, equipment and feats for high AC, along with concealment and mirror images for additional melee protection, oh and 30/Adamantium DR from Premonition and critical hit immunity from Stone Body or something.

Currently, our Frenzied Weapon Enthusiast can whip up a wand of breach to tear away some of those protections. Or he could try and hack at the thin air... between him and the arcanist. You know, the arcanist is in a position where he is only going to be hit when the opponent rolls 20 and even then it remains a maybe.

Now, this server is not nearly as PvP friendly as it used to be many, many, many years ago, but it still takes place. Arcane casters are already the top dog today, but that wand of breach is a crutch that might land a victory for our Frenzied Weapon Enthusiast. Thus the removal of breach could be seen, and taken, as another PvP buff in favor of arcanists.

I think your example is fairly accurate, and yet I disagree with your conclusions.

Armored Sorcerer is the answer to physical dmg. A squishy, high dmg melee type like WM/FB (designed to end the fight in a few swings) will obviously have huge issues against it. It's like saying a high SA dice Rogue/Assassin type is terrible because Druids with 90+ spot will always instakill it.

In most games (and in NWN2 even more so), power isn't only what you get, but what you leave behind in the process.

Armored Sorcerer cannot kill anybody with a Wand of Mantles, decent HP and a few potions. This in PvP. In PvE, it's just a bad arcane blaster (and good ones are already crap). The only thing it can do is to keep throwing Orbs and hope to roll 20 (which is not enough to kill, anyway...), and that the other is afk/cannot Mord/hasn't over 400 HP and the equipment described above/isn't a FS or Cleric/isn't a Dragon Druid/isnt a good Monk (cause you'll never hit with that AB)...

So...yeah.

Invoker wrote:Because Bards, Warlocks, Druids, Spirit Shamans, Wizards, Sorcerers, Monks and DDs, for instance, don't have DP but they still faceroll content.

How are you building a facerolling shaman (without exploits)? I have been looking at the class a while now and can't really see it. Is it a DC build? They have good defense, poor melee offense and decent spell offense.